Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

81 - 100 of 363 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Joe,

Thanks for replying.

I'm following the SE Wisconsin GTG thread on AVSforum and you'll certainly get an opportunity to listen to a lot of great speakers. I'm most interested in your observations of the Ascend Sierra Towers (ribbon tweeter) and the Philharmonics. Understanding that the GTG is a music listening demo and not HT, after the GTG, hopefully, we can connect and you can share your observations.

JTR Speakers - Its another ID brand, however, different than the Klipsch in terms of its compression driver. It is highly sensitive and geared toward HT - loud, dyanmic and clean, even though many owners have stated its also good for music (based on a hi-fi design). The speaker appears to use horn technology, however, many opinions are that horn technology sounds different on different brands and even lines of speakers, as well as, in different listening environments. Many people believe once you get into the higher lines of Klipsch (i.e. Reference), the brightness is no longer there. Also, other speakers that use horns (i.e. BIC as an example) are categorized as being laid back. Per reviews, JTR speakers sound neutral.
If there's one Pro-Audio speaker that you demonstrate for HT, I understand that JTR is the one. People on the forums are going crazy as to how good these speakers are for HT. Of course, comparing JTR to the speakers you'll listen to at the GTG is comparing apples to oranges.

Def. Tech Mythos - I demoed the Mythos STS a few weeks ago. When you make your way to Magnolia let me know your thoughts about the Mythos. My Magnolia only carried the Def. Tech BP line, thus, I found another Box Store to demo the Mythos.
Also, when you're at Magnolia, check out the B&W CM9s and let me know your thoughts.

Thanks for all that you're doing.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,209 Posts
Discussion Starter #82
OK, here is my updated list. Again, I don't know that I will be able to listen to all of these, but I am sure going to try to get as many as I can!

View attachment Audition List.xls

Robert, the Best Buy with a Magnolia in my area also does not have the Mythos - I contected another place to see if they have them - fingers crossed!

Oh, and I do not have to go to Best Buy for the CM709s as the local store has those as well as the Studio 100s and the GoldenEar Triton IIs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,660 Posts
You have some serious speakers on that list, its great you have so many of a reasonable distance to audition. Will be watching the results closely :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Has anybody recomended Theil yet? They have one in that similar price range. It's though to exclude them they sound fantastic and look good too. They were on my list but the CM9's won as they were a little more mellow but the Theil still sounded great albeit a different sound.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,209 Posts
Discussion Starter #85
Has anybody recomended Theil yet? They have one in that similar price range. It's though to exclude them they sound fantastic and look good too. They were on my list but the CM9's won as they were a little more mellow but the Theil still sounded great albeit a different sound.
I have read a few posts from JJ where he was very supportive of the Thiels - so I do indeed have the Thiel CS2.4 on my potential list.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,747 Posts
It would be awesome if you could take your EMPs to that GTG so Nuance et al can tear them apart (verbially) :devil:

I do prefer the e55tis over the Paradigms that you auditioned... what are your thoughts?

Anyways a few speakers to check out.. (er... buying... >_>;) would be

- Philharmonic Audio 2
- Audio Artistry CBT36 (Assembly required)
- JBL LSR 6332
- Soundfield Audio 1812
- Pioneer S1-EX
- Gedlee Abbey
- Audiokinesis Planetarium

JTR Speakers - As with the Aperion, these appear to be ID. Also, (and correct me if I am wrong) it appears that these speakers are as sensitive or more sensitive than Klipsch speakers are. I did have the opportunity to get a short listen to the RF-62s and just felt - for lack of a better choice of words - there was too much treble for my tastes. If my understanding is correct, a higher sensitivity speaker is not only easier to drive, they tend to have a higher treble (bright?) sound. I figure if the Klipsch did not appeal, these probably would not either.
Sensitivity is mostly independant of tonality/voicing (although a lot of horn speakers do trade tonal accuracy for loudness). You can electrically change the tonal balance of any speaker through its crossover (although you can't change everything about it).

I'm not a fan of Klipsch speakers, either for what it's worth. There aren't a lot of high sensitvity speakers that do appeal to me, but that's not because they are high sensitvity, but because of other design aspects. A few that I listed above are however, high sensitivity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
I just got an opportunity to look through your audition list.

Personally I'd take the Vandersteen off your list. I had vandersteen before I bought my MartinLogans, and the MartinLogans are hands down better speakers. Also, I didn't have excel handy, so I loaded the document up to Google docs. If you actually use the google doc, we can see your progress without you having to do anything....

Link: HERE

Umm, other than that, after looking at that list, there are several speakers where I'm not certain if there are good center/surround options (if your room is relatively optimal and you go bookshelf, you could go the same speakers all around except center channel, but if you're going w/ towers, you're unlikely to use the same speakers for surrounds. If I were you, I'd take a look at the list of speakers and try to discern what you'd do for the other 5 channels, and if you're not satisfied with how the pairings look, take em off your list. Might help you a bit :)


Cheers
Ikarius
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,209 Posts
Discussion Starter #88
It would be awesome if you could take your EMPs to that GTG so Nuance et al can tear them apart (verbially) :devil:

I do prefer the e55tis over the Paradigms that you auditioned... what are your thoughts?

Anyways a few speakers to check out.. (er... buying... >_>;) would be

- Philharmonic Audio 2
- Audio Artistry CBT36 (Assembly required)
- JBL LSR 6332
- Soundfield Audio 1812
- Pioneer S1-EX
- Gedlee Abbey
- Audiokinesis Planetarium



Sensitivity is mostly independant of tonality/voicing (although a lot of horn speakers do trade tonal accuracy for loudness). You can electrically change the tonal balance of any speaker through its crossover (although you can't change everything about it).

I'm not a fan of Klipsch speakers, either for what it's worth. There aren't a lot of high sensitvity speakers that do appeal to me, but that's not because they are high sensitvity, but because of other design aspects. A few that I listed above are however, high sensitivity.
Thanks for the speaker suggestions! I will do my best to get a bit of research in on them for potentially adding them to my list. Seeing as how this is my 1st opportunity to meet Nuance and the rest, I will more than likely NOT take anything along. :bigsmile:

As far as my impressions, I have not had much time on the EmpTeks yet - about 4 hours max and none of that was listening to my audition tracks. I have been spending every free moment I have working in the HT space. :whistling: I will make an attempt to do that this week and give my impressions. One thing I can say - they don't seem as hmmmm... detailed? With the Studios, I felt I heard everything - good and bad (used my ipod and was getting some static) - I don't get that feeling with the EmpTeks.

I just got an opportunity to look through your audition list.

Personally I'd take the Vandersteen off your list. I had vandersteen before I bought my MartinLogans, and the MartinLogans are hands down better speakers. Also, I didn't have excel handy, so I loaded the document up to Google docs. If you actually use the google doc, we can see your progress without you having to do anything....

Link: HERE

Umm, other than that, after looking at that list, there are several speakers where I'm not certain if there are good center/surround options (if your room is relatively optimal and you go bookshelf, you could go the same speakers all around except center channel, but if you're going w/ towers, you're unlikely to use the same speakers for surrounds. If I were you, I'd take a look at the list of speakers and try to discern what you'd do for the other 5 channels, and if you're not satisfied with how the pairings look, take em off your list. Might help you a bit :)


Cheers
Ikarius
Thanks for the opinion on the Vanderstein - I guess I am thinking I will try to listen to as much as I possibly can. But, based on that input, I will not go out of my way to make sure I include it. ;)

That is a really good suggestion - I will go back through the list and pair it down. Better yet - I will go back through the list and update the google doc (Thanks for posting the google doc - I will try to remember to do all my updates there. :bigsmile:) to indicate why I will not be auditioning that particular speaker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,747 Posts
One thing I can say - they don't seem as hmmmm... detailed? With the Studios, I felt I heard everything - good and bad (used my ipod and was getting some static) - I don't get that feeling with the EmpTeks.
They're not the most resolving speaker in the world. One thing to remember however is that sometimes what extra you're hearing, is not part of the recording, but is being added by the speaker. "Detail" and "resolution" are not necessarily the same thing. Sometimes speakers will trade balanced tonality for "Showroom Sizzle (and Boom)" (it sells). At times, you can bring speakers that impressed you in the showroom home, and find them fatiguing and sibilant. Sometimes it's the speaker that seems to do the least, that is actually the most honest. And sometimes the speaker does so little that it's removing from the recording. Striking that balance of accurate reproduction is tricky to say the least. Add in the speaker's interaction with the room, and things can get kind of convoluted.

All-in-all just live with them for a while and see what you think. Try not to get too caught up in listening to the speaker... just listen to the recordings(music/movies). if the speaker is doing something wrong, you'll hear it and recognize it subconciously. Soon enough you'll probably get a chance to audition Warpdrv's Salk Soundscape Monitor 7s. You'll find that they too have a relaxed tonality to them, but don't sacrifice even a smidgen of Accuracy to the original recording. If the recording has detail to be extracted, it will be, but nothing false will try to grab your ear.

As for Vandersteen vs Martin Logan, I've never heard Vandersteens but I've only heard excellent things about them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,697 Posts
Thanks for the opinion on the Vanderstein - I guess I am thinking I will try to listen to as much as I possibly can. But, based on that input, I will not go out of my way to make sure I include it. ;)
I wouldn't recommend crossing Vandersteen off the list. They make some of the very best cone & dome speakers for the money. I cannot think of a loudspeaker that has been around as long or has been as successful as the 2C series. You absolutely should go out of your way to hear Vandy's!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,697 Posts
They're not the most resolving speaker in the world. One thing to remember however is that sometimes what extra you're hearing, is not part of the recording, but is being added by the speaker. "Detail" and "resolution" are not necessarily the same thing. Sometimes speakers will trade balanced tonality for "Showroom Sizzle (and Boom)" (it sells).
Agree 100%

I just went from the B&W 602S3 (possibly the best bang for buck speaker B&W ever made) to the Chase SHO-10. The SHO-10 does not have that extra bit of sparkle at the top the the 602S3 Nautilus tweeter has. My brother, who bought my 602s noticed this as well, and commented that the SHOs didn't reach as high. I asked him to think about this, as what he found missing might not actually be something that is supposed to be there.

Perhaps the SHO is more accurately reproducing the highs? Everything else about them slays the 602s. To be honest, I do prefer that last little bit of air at the top, but I cannot say for sure that it belongs there. :dontknow:

For the record, many speakers have this zing at the top, not just the 602S3.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,747 Posts
Agree 100%

I just went from the B&W 602S3 (possibly the best bang for buck speaker B&W ever made) to the Chase SHO-10. The SHO-10 does not have that extra bit of sparkle at the top the the 602S3 Nautilus tweeter has. My brother, who bought my 602s noticed this as well, and commented that the SHOs didn't reach as high. I asked him to think about this, as what he found missing might not actually be something that is supposed to be there.

Perhaps the SHO is more accurately reproducing the highs? Everything else about them slays the 602s. To be honest, I do prefer that last little bit of air at the top, but I cannot say for sure that it belongs there. :dontknow:

For the record, many speakers have this zing at the top, not just the 602S3.
How dead is your room? You might be able to get that air back just by livening it up a bit.

Tough to say what's more accurate on the upper treble. Accurate on midrange, lower treble, midbass, a lot easier. Upper treble is confusing. I don't think there's a right or wrong below 30hz and above around 8khz. In a sense we should just start with speakers that do everything else well, and then once it's narrowed down we can decide how we like our top and bottom octaves
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,697 Posts
I definitely have 30-8k Hz where I want it, and that is great advice, EV. Constant directivity from 1600 Hz on up really helps in my difficult room.

The room is quite lively, flutter echo is a problem that I manage with light treatments. Maybe I just need to add more bass. :bigsmile:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,209 Posts
Discussion Starter #94
You guys do realize that if you keep this up, I will be auditioning speakers long after I finish the HT room! :rofl2:

Seriously though, thanks for the discussion. I am going to try to hit every speaker on the list as far as research goes. Per Ikarius' advice though, I may start tagging some speakers as ones that I will not audition live based upon what the matching speakers offer. Also, I will probably not be able to do all the ID ones unless I can find members who have them and are willing to put up with a traveling noob. :R

Perhaps I missed it - does anyone know the details of the Chase GTG for April 20-21? I normally try to read every thread, but I may have missed one discussing it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,697 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,112 Posts
Hello,
I will again say that I adore Thiels and the best ever 2 Channel SQ I ever had in one of my Systems was when I had a pair of CS 1.5's connected to a Nakamichi AV-10 around a decade ago when living in Charleston, SC.

My short list of next Speaker Brands is Thiel, Focal, Dynaudio, and Wilson Audio. I am thinking within the year, I am going to put together a 5.2 HT from one of these companies. Even with getting a decent return from selling my Martin Logans, this is going to practically bankrupt me. Especially if I go Wilson.
Cheers,
JJ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
On Vandersteen; I owned Vandersteen 2CEs before building a new sound system starting with MartinLogan Motion LX16s. I owned them for over a decade, and was very happy with them. Their tone is warm and engaging, and they present a terrific soundstage. However, they still need a subwoofer to fill out the bottom end, they are absolutely less detailed & articulate in the high end than the MartinLogans- AND they cost more than twice as much as the LX16s.

A decade ago, I agree, the Vandersteens were some of the finest speakers to be had for the money. However, in the last decade, neither Vandersteen's lineup nor their pricing has changed while other manufacturers have improved substantially and prices have come down.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,112 Posts
Hello,
Another worthwhile company is Magneplanar. My brother used to own 3.6's and they sounded fantastic. He ended up selling them to get Focal 1038be's, but his HT is Martin Logan Ascent i's (Front/Surround), Theater i and Descent i so it made sense to me to go with something like the Focals. Also, Maggies have some of the best resale values of any Speakers out there.
Cheers,
JJ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
194 Posts
If available try and give the KEF's an audition I own Paradigm Studio 100's and I am happy with them but one of our clients just purchased some KEF's 205 I believe and they were impressive.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,209 Posts
Discussion Starter #100
From the HTS thread:


And the manufacturer forum/thread:
http://www.chasehometheater.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4890
Thanks Tesseract - I did not know they had a link to it on their forums. I think I may just make the drive if they have room!

Hello,
I will again say that I adore Thiels and the best ever 2 Channel SQ I ever had in one of my Systems was when I had a pair of CS 1.5's connected to a Nakamichi AV-10 around a decade ago when living in Charleston, SC.

My short list of next Speaker Brands is Thiel, Focal, Dynaudio, and Wilson Audio. I am thinking within the year, I am going to put together a 5.2 HT from one of these companies. Even with getting a decent return from selling my Martin Logans, this is going to practically bankrupt me. Especially if I go Wilson.
Cheers,
JJ
Thanks JJ - I do have the Thiel 2.4, Focal 836, and the Dynaudio XT36 on my current list based upon your earlier suggestions. It might be fun to give a listen to the Wilson Audios - but the good lord knows I won't make enough in my lifetime to get them. :D

On Vandersteen; I owned Vandersteen 2CEs before building a new sound system starting with MartinLogan Motion LX16s. I owned them for over a decade, and was very happy with them. Their tone is warm and engaging, and they present a terrific soundstage. However, they still need a subwoofer to fill out the bottom end, they are absolutely less detailed & articulate in the high end than the MartinLogans- AND they cost more than twice as much as the LX16s.

A decade ago, I agree, the Vandersteens were some of the finest speakers to be had for the money. However, in the last decade, neither Vandersteen's lineup nor their pricing has changed while other manufacturers have improved substantially and prices have come down.
Point taken - fortunately, I have the PB-13 Ultras on sub duty. :hsd:

Hello,
Another worthwhile company is Magneplanar. My brother used to own 3.6's and they sounded fantastic. He ended up selling them to get Focal 1038be's, but his HT is Martin Logan Ascent i's (Front/Surround), Theater i and Descent i so it made sense to me to go with something like the Focals. Also, Maggies have some of the best resale values of any Speakers out there.
Cheers,
JJ
Are Maggies electrostatic? I seem to recall there being something different about them......

If available try and give the KEF's an audition I own Paradigm Studio 100's and I am happy with them but one of our clients just purchased some KEF's 205 I believe and they were impressive.
Added the KEF R900 speakers to the list.

Per a very good suggestion, here is a link to the audition list.

Google Doc Audition List
 
81 - 100 of 363 Posts
Top