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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello All,

I have been out of the AV Scene a long time & am now just about trying to get back into things - please note, I am not very technically savvy - more of a Monkey See, Monkey Do situation with me so please bear this in mind!

AVR is Connected to a 5.1.2 Speaker System in the following configuration: Right & Left Main Fronts, Centre, Right & Left Rear Surrounds & In Ceiling Top Middle Position Height Speakers. All Speakers have a nominal impedance of 4-8 Ohms except the In Ceiling Top Middle Speakers which are 8 Ohms.

All Speakers are connected properly & produce sound when playing a Multi Channel Movie - for example when watching a Surround Sound movie on Amazon Firestick.

ISSUE:

1) Each time, I attempt to run the Onkyo AccuEQ Calibration process, at some point during the Calibration, the AV Receiver switches it self off.

2) The Calibration process runs smoothly when testing Subwoofer, Right Main, Left Main & Centre Speaker.

3) Upon testing either of the Rear Surrounds or the In-Ceiling Top Middle Speakers, the process is terminated as the AV Receiver for some reason keeps switching off. This can be with any one of the speakers & not any particular order during the Calibration process.

4) Upon manually switching the AV Receiver On again, it shows on display as doing a Diagnostic Check.

5) When the Diagnostic Check is complete, the AVR Display usually shows the message: “Check Speaker Wire”

6) Upon checking Speaker Wires connected to back of AV Receiver, all are correctly & firmly connected.

7) I have to then manually Switch Off the AV Receiver again & it then operates as normal with no “Check Speaker Wire” message.

Bearing in mind I am not too technical & have no special tools/equipment etc, Please can anyone kindly help & assist in identifying why the AV Receiver suddenly switches itself off during the AccuEQ Calibration Process & what can be done to rectify it & stop it keep happening so I can run a successful Calibration & hence set up my AV Receiver properly - I would be most dearly grateful as I am way out of my depth here!

Thank You Kindly!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I’d say check the speaker wires on the other end, at the speakers. Look for a loose strand that may be making contact with the other terminal.

Regards,
Wayne

Hi Wayne,

Thank you so much for replying!

I have checked the connections at the two Rear Surround Speakers & they are fine but unfortunately, it will now be impossible for me to check the connections for the in ceiling speakers as I used non standard speakers which are fixed in place (cannot be moved/removed) & my ceiling leads to the loft above which has been completely boarded up!

The workman who installed the speakers has assured me he had connected them correctly so as a professional I trusted him. If the AVR & now your good-self are saying it is a speaker connection issue, then I have have to presume it must be just that but may I ask, if that is the case, then why when I play a surround sound movie do all speakers seem to ay normally & the AVR does not switch it self off like it does when I attempt to run the AccuEQ Calibration please?

Many Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Sorry, don’t have an answer for you. I guess your only option is to adjust the speakers levels manually by ear. At least everything works as it should with regular programming.

Regards,
Wayne
Hi Wayne,

Just an update if I may - I finally found that there were 2 issues:

1) The LR Surround Speaker Cable was hidden behind the coving so impossible to see. The contractor had cut it too short so he added an extra length to it so it could reach the Speaker Terminals - however, he connected the wrong polarity at the join which I have now corrected & all is now fine with this speaker.

2) The other problem identified by the AVR is the Left Height In Ceiling Speaker for Atmos. I have tried swapping the polarity of the cable (connecting + to - & vice versa at the AVR) but the AVR always shuts down now on this speaker alone with the "Check Speaker Wire" message.

I disconnected all Speakers except the Atmos In Ceiling L&R Heights from the AVR & played a movie for a few minutes. Both speakers produced sound & the AVR does not shut off. I then disconnected each Speaker in turn to compare how each sounded against the other looking for things like lower output on one, noise/distortion or cracking sounds that would indicate a damaged/blown speaker. Both speakers sounded identical to one another in terms of output & clarity.

When I do the AccuEQ Test without the In Ceiling Left Atmos Height Speaker in question, the process completes stating all Speakers were detected but with no measurements - only the options to Retry or Cancel.

I am stumped then as to why the AccuEQ process keeps failing on this one LH Front speaker when it sounds exactly the same as the RH Front Speaker. There is no way at all I can get to the speaker terminals as access is now impossible but if there was such a thing as loose wire contacting the opposite terminal, then surely I would hear some consequence of that against it's counterpart that poses no issues?

Is there a way for me to find out the measurements/numbers the AccuEq process measured without the problematic speaker may I ask? My reason for asking is that I can then input them manually & for the LH Front Speaker I can simply then input the numbers the AVR came up with for the RH Front Speaker since they are both in line & the same distance away from the listening position?

Sorry for the long post but wished to provide all the information I could find!

Many Thanks!
 

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If you have a speaker wired with reverse polarity, when played by itself it will sound the same as one wired correctly. A good way to determine if two speakers are out of phase is to play them both simultaneously. The bass will sound weak if one of them has the polarity reversed, compared to both having the same polarity. You might try connecting your problem speakers to the main L/R channels for a test like this.

Alternately, if you can remove the speaker grilles, you can quickly connect the speaker ends to a 9-volt battery. Wired correctly – battery (+) to speaker (+) – the cone will move out (forward). Battery (+) to speaker (-), the cone will suck in. Don’t leave the battery connected for more than a second or so to avoid overheating the speaker coil and possibly ruining it.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If you have a speaker wired with reverse polarity, when played by itself it will sound the same as one wired correctly. A good way to determine if two speakers are out of phase is to play them both simultaneously. The bass will sound weak if one of them has the polarity reversed, compared to both having the same polarity. You might try connecting your problem speakers to the main L/R channels for a test like this.

Alternately, if you can remove the speaker grilles, you can quickly connect the speaker ends to a 9-volt battery. Wired correctly – battery (+) to speaker (+) – the cone will move out (forward). Battery (+) to speaker (-), the cone will suck in. Don’t leave the battery connected for more than a second or so to avoid overheating the speaker coil and possibly ruining it.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Hi Wayne,

I will try & get the grill off - might be a bit challenging but will do my best. For now, I can try your battery test on the ends of the cable to check for any cone sound movement.

I have an iPhone - do you by chance know of any free SPL Meter Apps that have the required C-Weighting? I found one called "Sound Meter" but it has no settings options to select anything so I do not know what the Weighting has been set to.

Many Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If you have a speaker wired with reverse polarity, when played by itself it will sound the same as one wired correctly. A good way to determine if two speakers are out of phase is to play them both simultaneously. The bass will sound weak if one of them has the polarity reversed, compared to both having the same polarity. You might try connecting your problem speakers to the main L/R channels for a test like this.

Alternately, if you can remove the speaker grilles, you can quickly connect the speaker ends to a 9-volt battery. Wired correctly – battery (+) to speaker (+) – the cone will move out (forward). Battery (+) to speaker (-), the cone will suck in. Don’t leave the battery connected for more than a second or so to avoid overheating the speaker coil and possibly ruining it.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Hi Wayne,

I will try & get the grill off - might be a bit challenging but will do my best. For now, I can try your battery test on the ends of the cable to check for any cone sound movement.

I have an iPhone - do you by chance know of any free SPL Meter Apps that have the required C-Weighting? I found one called "Sound Meter" but it has no settings options to select anything so I do not know what the Weighting has been set to.

Many Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hi Wayne,

Well after a lot of back & fro, I think I have at least now identified what exactly is happening. I rechecked all cables (except for at the speaker in question) & made sure all connections were secure.

I also tried again reversing polarity on the speaker cable to the AVR & all connections worked however one was a bit louder than the other - I assume this was the correct connections & put positive & negative banana plugs on the left & right cables.

I then did another sound check & the speaker in question was able to play sounds without any issues at all. After this attempted yet more AccuEQ Calibrations but all again failed - please note that the AVR switches off very soon after trying to measure this speaker.

Giving up, I tried that manual method via a Sound Meter - my Onkyo does not have a relative volume scale but an absolute one so I understand that reference zero is when the volume level is set to 82 on the absolute scale.

The process went smoothly & even on this problem Front L Top Middle Atmos Speaker - the white noise was emanating just fine (remember, with AccuEQ, it would shut down the receiver almost as soon as the white noise commences). I found that the speaker was below the required 75dB level so started to increase the volume on the AVR Remote Control to bring the dB level up to 75. During increasing the volume - low & behold, the AVR shuts it self down again.

I can only gather that the cable connections at the Speaker are fine as otherwise they would not play either the content or the white noise & the speaker is not damaged/blown.

However, something is making the AVR switch off almost immediately when attempting to measure the speaker BUT during manual calibration, the speaker plays without issue until once starts to increase volume to set dB level - no idea why it happens near instantly on one account but not the other.

Based on the above, any idea what might be going on, what the cause(s) are & how to resolve?

It would really be a nightmare for me to remove the speaker as it is plastered in & affixed to a loft joist plus having to do so will mean a fair bit of damage to the ceiling.

Many Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi Wayne/All,

Just another update - I did a AV Receiver Reset but the issue still remained.

It then occurred to me to connect another spare speaker I had to the same AVR channel I was having problems with & try another AccuEQ test.

Low & behold, the AccuEQ process was able to complete fully this time with no AVR Shutdowns!! Awesome!

I am bemused as the original speaker that results in AVR shut down during calibration still sounds just fine?

The AccuEQ came up with some very strange numbers indeed - my FL, FR, SL & SR Speakers are all the same bookshelf speakers with larger matching Centre that are somewhat bigger than the much smaller Atmos Ceiling Speakers being used.

I believe that manufacturer of the bookshelf speakers recommended to set them at between 100hz-120hz & the manufacturer of the smaller Atmos speakers being used recommends setting them at 150hz.

My Sub has a frequency range of 24hz to 200hz. Level s set to mid way at 12 O'Clock position & Crossover set to bypass.

AccuEQ set the following:

FL & FR = 200hz
Centre = 180hz
L&R Surrounds = 150hz
L&R Atmos = 200hz
LPF of LFE = 120hz

Not sure why it has set the main FL, FR, C, SL & SL are set so high & at the same level as the much smaller Atmos speakers & furthermore why the FL, FR & C are set to 200hz when the SL & SR (same) speakers are set to 150hz?

What are your thoughts please?

Many Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
What is the brand /model speaker(s)?

Regards,
Wayne
Hi Wayne,

My FL, FR, SL & SR are Definitive Technology Pro Monitor 80's (60Hz-30kHz / Sensitivity 89dB / 8 Ohms) & the Centre Channel is a Definitive Technology Pro 100 (50Hz-30kHz / Sensitivity 89dB / 8 Ohms). The Atmos Speakers are Boston Acoustic Soundware XS Satellite Speakers (150Hz-20000Hz / Sensitivity 85dB / 8 Ohms).

The Sub is a Martin Logan Dynamo 700 (300 Watts / 24Hz-200Hz / Low Pass Filter 35-120Hz / Impedance [Left/Right & LFE-RCA] 20000 Ohms).

I know they are entry level but I am just about getting back into AV & once am more comfortable, plan to upgrade & when funds allow - still sound somewhat impressive - at least to me, for what they are!

Ironically, being a Brit, I just noticed that all my speakers including the Sub are USA Brands!

Thanks!
 

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Thanks for the info.

Frankly, some of the speakers’ crossover frequency settings don’t make sense to me. I would expect the fronts and rears to cross the same, since the are all the same speaker.

I think I’d cross over the Pro 80’s at 100 Hz for starters, and drop the sub to the same frequency. If you hear rude noises from the 80’s during demanding passages, then raise the crossover frequency, and change the sub accordingly.

I’d keep the center channel at 180, or even raise it to 200. Personally, I like the center channel this high, because often male vocals in program material are poorly EQ’d, making them sound unnaturally “boomy.” A high crossover frequency can filter most of that out.

The crossover setting for the Bostons should be fine.

Still don’t know what to tell you about the auto calibration issue. I’d suggest disconnecting the Bostons in order to run your calibration, so at least you can do that much. You’ll just have to adjust the Boston’s level by ear.

Regards,
Wayne
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks for the info.

Frankly, some of the speakers’ crossover frequency settings don’t make sense to me. I would expect the fronts and rears to cross the same, since the are all the same speaker.

I think I’d cross over the Pro 80’s at 100 Hz for starters, and drop the sub to the same frequency. If you hear rude noises from the 80’s during demanding passages, then raise the crossover frequency, and change the sub accordingly.

I’d keep the center channel at 180, or even raise it to 200. Personally, I like the center channel this high, because often male vocals in program material are poorly EQ’d, making them sound unnaturally “boomy.” A high crossover frequency can filter most of that out.

The crossover setting for the Bostons should be fine.

Still don’t know what to tell you about the auto calibration issue. I’d suggest disconnecting the Bostons in order to run your calibration, so at least you can do that much. You’ll just have to adjust the Boston’s level by ear.

Regards,
Wayne
Hi Wayne!

Thanks kindly for the really great input! Yes, even though I am not so knowledgable, those numbers did not look right to me at all either! I know AccuEQ (since it only measures at a single point) has gotten much criticism & it has also been an issue for some others as well - some folks even said it was garbage so maybe my actions & issues with AccuEQ are coming up with such numbers - I will try again in future & keep you updated.

As the issue is with one of the Boston Speakers, I am contemplating changing all the 4 Atmos speakers in the ceiling to either dedicated in-ceiling ones or on-ceiling ones. I will have to remove the current Boston Acoustic Soundware XS ones which will leave about 8cm square holes. I would have to remove them anyway to get access to the speaker cables they are attached to.

If I go with on ceiling - I have another set of 4 Definitive Technology Pro Monitor 80's that I can use so pretty much all the speakers are the same & then patching 8cm holes with plasterboard & then Polyfilla/Paint. If I do this, then I would angle the speakers with the Tweeters pointing at the listening position.

I have also been looking at in-ceiling ones & there are many that are not suitable for Home Cinema on Amazon etc & I did not want to spend too much for such a basic system as mine - choice in the UK as not as vast for reasonably priced in-ceiling speakers as in the USA & the established brands want silly money which would likely again be not worth the cost. I have been looking at the Polk RC60i which come up on offer from time to time - 6.5" Woofer with a pivotable Tweeter & they seem to get good reviews.

My only issue with this is it would mean permanent large holes in the ceiling & as there is the loft directly above, it has 300mm of insulation which is the covered with boarding on top. I cannot install a backbox & as these speakers have coils & components exposed on top, I am concerned about a heat/fire risk as insulation will just cover the tops of all the speakers. I do not know much about how much heat speaker components put out but do you feel there might be a concerning/reasonable level of fire risk with in-ceilings in my situation?

If it was you then pertaining to both sound quality & safety - which would you go for - the on-ceiling Pro Monitor 80's or the in-ceiling Polk RC60i's with no back-boxes keeping in mind the insulation factor please? Please see basic pic illustration.

My thinking (hopefully rightly) is that AccuEQ does not have a problem measuring the Def-Techs so then should not have a problem measuring more of the same & they should hopefully sound much better/fuller than the much smaller Boston XS Satellites?

Sorry for the long post & kind thanks!

Font Slope Rectangle Parallel Technology
 

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In-ceiling speakers pose no fire risk - speakers do not generate any heat.

As to which to go with, in-ceiling or surface-mounted, both have their advantages and disadvantages.

In-ceiling speakers undoubtably look better, but you’re locked into your furniture arrangement once you put them in. If you later determine your placement choice could have been better – not an easy fix.

With surface-mounted, you can more easily relocate them if needed, plus you have the ability to angle them at the listening position for the best resolution. By contrast, in-ceiling speakers sound best when you’re directly under them, especially if you have a low ceiling of 2.5 meters or so (which is a common ceiling height in the US).

I’m confident that either the Def Techs or Polks will sound significantly better than the Boston XS speakers.

Regards,
Wayne
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
In-ceiling speakers pose no fire risk - speakers do not generate any heat.

As to which to go with, in-ceiling or surface-mounted, both have their advantages and disadvantages.

In-ceiling speakers undoubtably look better, but you’re locked into your furniture arrangement once you put them in. If you later determine your placement choice could have been better – not an easy fix.

With surface-mounted, you can more easily relocate them if needed, plus you have the ability to angle them at the listening position for the best resolution. By contrast, in-ceiling speakers sound best when you’re directly under them, especially if you have a low ceiling of 2.5 meters or so (which is a common ceiling height in the US).

I’m confident that either the Def Techs or Polks will sound significantly better than the Boston XS speakers.

Regards,
Wayne
Hi Wayne,

Thank you so much for all your help & input - it has been invaluable to me & I am deeply grateful. I will at some time now make the switch - just need to decide on having less flexible but flush, less obtrusive in-ceilings or more flexible but visible on-ceilings.

Considering that the on-ceiling Def-Tech Promonitor 80's have an enclosure & the in-ceilings will not, which do you feel will sound better between the two?

Many Thanks!
 
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