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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am a bit confused over the terminology used in the Onkyo Manual :

Is the LPF of LFE freq setting the low pass filter cut off point? Does this come into play in stereo mode?

I have been setting this to 120HZ when I measured the subwoofer for Room EQ . Is this the correct thing to do?

Is the mains speaker crossover Freq the cut off point of the High Pass filter ?

Thanks
 

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I am a bit confused over the terminology used in the Onkyo Manual :

Is the LPF of LFE freq setting the low pass filter cut off point?
Yes, but only for the LFE (.1) channel of a 5.1 signal. There is no content recorded in the LFE channel signal above 80 Hz per the standards.

Does this come into play in stereo mode?
No, it does not affect the main channels in any way.

I have been setting this to 120HZ when I measured the subwoofer for Room EQ . Is this the correct thing to do?
Yes, Audyssey recommends a setting of 120 Hz for all cases.

Is the mains speaker crossover Freq the cut off point of the High Pass filter ?
No, the XO settings for each main speaker sets both the high pass and low pass filters for the main speaker signal. The low pass from all the main speaker signals is then sent to the SW along with the LFE channel signal (if there is one).

[Note that, if you set "Double bass" = on, then the high pass portion of the FL, FR speaker XO is defeated and both the SW and the FL, FR speakers will play content below XO setting. This is not considered to be good practice. It is normally better to leave "Double Bass" = off.]

I believe the Audyssey website has a good writeup on this subject.
 

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Keep this setting at 120 always. This is the high frequency limit of the sub channel on the movie tracks. There is no information on the sub channel at higher frequencies. If you set it lower, say at 80, then information on the sub channel between 80-120 hz is not reproduced. I never understood who Onkyo even made this a user selectable option.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
No, the XO settings for each main speaker sets both the high pass and low pass filters for the main speaker signal. The low pass from all the main speaker signals is then sent to the SW along with the LFE channel signal (if there is one).

[Note that, if you set "Double bass" = on, then the high pass portion of the FL, FR speaker XO is defeated and both the SW and the FL, FR speakers will play content below XO setting. This is not considered to be good practice. It is normally better to leave "Double Bass" = off.]

I believe the Audyssey website has a good writeup on this subject.
I have double bass off . So when Equalizing the Subwoofer with REW, the setting of the L/R Xover Freq should theoretically be what I would use in the final setup ?

Re 2 Channel listening .

I turn off Audyssey for 2 channel listening. Most of the time I set the music mode to Direct and the L/R speaker to Full Range.( no Subwoofer) . I seem to get the most transparent sound with this setup.

Sometimes however I would like to use the Subwoofer for say Organ Music . In this case I would set the L/R speaker Xover to 80Hz or 100Hz. In this mode , would the Mains speaker and Subwoofer distance setting come into play ? Would the bass management of Onkyo ( Stereo Mode) try to compensate for different distance of subwoofer and Mains speakers ( Does Onkyo do it with delays or phase adjustments ? ) using the speaker distances set by Audyssey ?

Thanks.
 

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So when Equalizing the Subwoofer with REW, the setting of the L/R Xover Freq should theoretically be what I would use in the final setup ?
I believe Audyssey EQs the SW flat above the highest XO point so that if the XO is changed up or down a little the handoff is still reasonable. This is probably the better way to go. You could just use a 200 or 250 Hz XO setting and EQ to that Freq.

Re 2 Channel listening .

...Sometimes however I would like to use the Subwoofer for say Organ Music . In this case I would set the L/R speaker Xover to 80Hz or 100Hz. In this mode , would the Mains speaker and Subwoofer distance setting come into play ?
Yes, in any mode except "direct mode".

Would the bass management of Onkyo ( Stereo Mode) try to compensate for different distance of subwoofer and Mains speakers ( Does Onkyo do it with delays or phase adjustments ? ) using the speaker distances set by Audyssey ?
Yes, the distance settings Audyssey has set (or those manually entered) will come into play when in any mode except "direct" is used.

The distance settings are adjusting the relative delay to each of the channels. Audyssey calculates the time delay (ie distance setting) needed to provide a smooth phase handoff through the XO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I believe Audyssey EQs the SW flat above the highest XO point so that if the XO is changed up or down a little the handoff is still reasonable. This is probably the better way to go. You could just use a 200 or 250 Hz XO setting and EQ to that Freq.

So are you saying that I should set the mains XO to somewhere high like 200HZ before proceeding to measure the sub response with REW. Then after EQing the Sub , I change the mains XO back to say 80 to 100 hz for normal listening?

Tks
 

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So are you saying that I should set the mains XO to somewhere high like 200HZ before proceeding to measure the sub response with REW. Then after EQing the Sub , I change the mains XO back to say 80 to 100 hz for normal listening?

Tks
Yes, that method will provide more flexibility to adjust the final XO setting. You can then move it from 60 to 120 to see which frequency provides the best results.

Setting the EQ with the XO already at the desired frequency is okay as well, but is a little more limiting.

[Is your question is really asking; which method provides best phase handoff through the XO? If so, then my opinion is that you can only know that by measuring the result.]
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yes, that method will provide more flexibility to adjust the final XO setting. You can then move it from 60 to 120 to see which frequency provides the best results.

Setting the EQ with the XO already at the desired frequency is okay as well, but is a little more limiting.

[Is your question is really asking; which method provides best phase handoff through the XO? If so, then my opinion is that you can only know that by measuring the result.]
Thanks for the clarifications. I wanted to be sure of the method to measure the sub with Onkyo bass management in the loop and then to integrate it with the Onkyo for HT and 2 channel listening.

Another thing I notice whilst playing with it is that when doing a Spkr + sub scan , some dips can be reduced by adjusting the phase of the sub. Is this normal thing to do ?

How accurate are the Audyssey measured distances ? They have been about 1 ft more than physical measurements . I know I need to add about 1 ft top the sub distance due to processing time of the BFD.

TKs
 

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Thanks for the clarifications. I wanted to be sure of the method to measure the sub with Onkyo bass management in the loop and then to integrate it with the Onkyo for HT and 2 channel listening.
I am unsure of your intentions here and so take my comments above accordingly. Most people would just use the Onkyo for all situations; HT with Audyssey, Stereo with Audyssey, Stereo with Bass management and Audyssey EQ turned off, and Stereo with both bass management and Audyssey turned off (direct mode). I may be getting confused about what your concern is or what you are trying to accomplish.

Another thing I notice whilst playing with it is that when doing a Spkr + sub scan , some dips can be reduced by adjusting the phase of the sub. Is this normal thing to do ?
I have no experience with a "phase" control on a SW. My experience is with EQ, XO filters and delays to achieve proper alignment (using DCX2496 for speaker management). That said, to the extent that the phase is modified at the XO with one of these controls on the SW then of course there will be an impact on the SPL response. In the end, the combined SPL response is the primary factor that will impact the sound at these lower frequencies.

How accurate are the Audyssey measured distances ? They have been about 1 ft more than physical measurements .
It is not possible to tell the absolute accuracy of phase handoff by the distance settings directly. It is the relative distance settings and not the absolute values that relate to the delays. Also the delay of the AVR processer (and any other outside digital processors) will also shift these relative distances a little.

Note that, even if there was a 1 ft. error from ideal, it is only about 32 degrees at 100 Hz, so it is not a big impact on the SPL.

Using REW you can do a simple indirect measurement to confirm that the phase is reasonable. Just measure the SW, then one main speaker and then both together. Overlay the SPL traces and confirm that the “both together” SPL trace is increased through the XO range relative to the “individual” SPL traces. You can then do that for each main speaker to assure that the distance settings are in the right ballpark.


I know I need to add about 1 ft top the sub distance due to processing time of the BFD.
That may be about right if you run Audyssey before you insert the BDF, but I haven't measured the BDF delay.

[You also may want to investigate if a manual change to the SW distance setting prevents Audyssey from being engaged. I know that the XO frequency can be changed and Audyssey will still function, but I think there are some changes that automatically turns Audyssey off. I don’t remember what that change was though. The Audyssey light on the front on the AVR is lit when Audyssey is on.]
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
John,

I am trying to do 3 things:

a) Watch movies with HT
b) Listen to Music in Direct mode ( Audyssey and bass management turned off ). Does actuating Direct mode automatically turn Audyssey and Bass management off so I dont have to do this manually in Speaker settings? )
c) Listen to Music in Stereo mode, with Audyssey off but with bass management ON )

I know how to do a) and b) . I am trying to properly setup c) so that it sound closest to b) but with more extended bass .
 

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John,

I am trying to do 3 things:

a) Watch movies with HT
b) Listen to Music in Direct mode ( Audyssey and bass management turned off ). Does actuating Direct mode automatically turn Audyssey and Bass management off so I dont have to do this manually in Speaker settings? )
c) Listen to Music in Stereo mode, with Audyssey off but with bass management ON )

I know how to do a) and b) . I am trying to properly setup c) so that it sound closest to b) but with more extended bass .
For "b" - Yes, direct mode automatically turns off both Audyssey and bass management so that makes it simple to switch back and forth.

For "c" just select stereo mode and go to the "Equalizer Settings" setup page and set the EQ to "off". This is based on my Integra 9.8 where the choices for EQ are; "Off", "Audyssey" or "Manual". Your unit may be similar.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
For "b" - Yes, direct mode automatically turns off both Audyssey and bass management so that makes it simple to switch back and forth.

For "c" just select stereo mode and go to the "Equalizer Settings" setup page and set the EQ to "off". This is based on my Integra 9.8 where the choices for EQ are; "Off", "Audyssey" or "Manual". Your unit may be similar.
Onkyo has same choice nomenclature as yours for "Equalizer Settings.

Armed with yours and others inputs I re did my EQ again.

First I did only a 3 position Audyssey EQ to get the distances per Audyssey with BFD bypassed.

I then remeasured the sub FR with mains XO set to 200hz. and EQed the sub to match target curve to 120HZ. Used 5 filters plus some tweaks. Yes, I can see where this method is better and more flexible as I am not trying to match the Onkyo base management but rather smooth out sub room responses to 120hz .

After some full freq sweeps ( mains + sub) I have found that in my room the smoothest curve is attained when the mains XO is set to 120hz, 100hz is not bad but 80hz not so good.

However a relatively flat response down to 20 HZ is fine for music but not so good for movies . Actaully a bit moe bass is better so I will do that with manual EQ

For HT I will redo Audyssey with 8 positions , maybe I will add a 6bd house curve as well .

Thanks to everyone for answering my question and helping me redo my EQ. I am quite happy with new settings esp for 2 channel listening.
 
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