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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,
Anybody using the the MCH outs on a Panasonic BD-85 player. I'm having problems with speaker calibrations, I realize bass management is done in the player, but from the 85's setup menu there seems little I can do, I can select speaker presence (size and how many) but all output levels are 0dB, I run the test tones from player but can only lower the output level for eack speaker and not raise them, also test tones skip over the sub output all together, my legacy Onkyo 702 will not do tones in MCH option but will let me adjust speaker and sub levels, so I just left all levels in the player set to 0dB and set the levels in the 702 to my original numbers I used when I first calibrated it with a SPL meter. This seemed OK, but when playing a BD I get better sound quality when the 85 is set to output digital coaxial ! What am I doing wrong guys? Any help would sorely appreciated.
Thanks, Jeff
 

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Hello,
Anybody using the the MCH outs on a Panasonic BD-85 player. I'm having problems with speaker calibrations, I realize bass management is done in the player, but from the 85's setup menu there seems little I can do, I can select speaker presence (size and how many) but all output levels are 0dB, I run the test tones from player but can only lower the output level for eack speaker and not raise them, also test tones skip over the sub output all together, my legacy Onkyo 702 will not do tones in MCH option but will let me adjust speaker and sub levels, so I just left all levels in the player set to 0dB and set the levels in the 702 to my original numbers I used when I first calibrated it with a SPL meter. This seemed OK, but when playing a BD I get better sound quality when the 85 is set to output digital coaxial ! What am I doing wrong guys? Any help would sorely appreciated.
Thanks, Jeff
Hello,
I have never used a Panasonic BDP's Multichannel Analog Output, but it is standard that the Speaker Levels from the BDP cannot be raised and can only be lowered. I have never seen a DVD or Blu-ray Player that gives you the option of raising the Level.

This is primarily because 0db is the Reference Output for the Player. A major disadvantage to using the Bass Management from a BDP is that it does not have near the same Processing Power of an AVR. Moreover, when using Multichannel Analog Inputs, you lose the ability to raise Bass and Treble and I too have always experienced a lower output level when using MCH Analog. Moreover, in newer AVR's, you also lose Room Correction when using MCH.

So in truth, I do not think you are doing anything wrong per se. Rather, the levels when using a Digital Connection always tends to run hotter. So even when True HD and DTS-HD are being Played, you still prefer the Coaxial Digital Output? Only a handful of AVR's offer Bass Management on the MCH Input. This was done as for the most part these Inputs were for SACD/DVD-Audio where redigitizing the Inputs by using Bass Management would defeat the purpose. In the end, it really comes down to whatever sounds best to you.
Cheers,
JJ
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Jack as always, I have to leave the house but will return shortly to chime in.
Cheers to you my friend....Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hello,
I have never used a Panasonic BDP's Multichannel Analog Output, but it is standard that the Speaker Levels from the BDP cannot be raised and can only be lowered. I have never seen a DVD or Blu-ray Player that gives you the option of raising the Level.

This is primarily because 0db is the Reference Output for the Player. A major disadvantage to using the Bass Management from a BDP is that it does not have near the same Processing Power of an AVR. Moreover, when using Multichannel Analog Inputs, you lose the ability to raise Bass and Treble and I too have always experienced a lower output level when using MCH Analog. Moreover, in newer AVR's, you also lose Room Correction when using MCH.

So in truth, I do not think you are doing anything wrong per se. Rather, the levels when using a Digital Connection always tends to run hotter. So even when True HD and DTS-HD are being Played, you still prefer the Coaxial Digital Output? Only a handful of AVR's offer Bass Management on the MCH Input. This was done as for the most part these Inputs were for SACD/DVD-Audio where redigitizing the Inputs by using Bass Management would defeat the purpose. In the end, it really comes down to whatever sounds best to you.
Cheers,
JJ
Jack I really appreciate your responce, I thought I had a defective unit, Panasonic said the same thing that you stated, the levels are really lower. I read somewhere that not being able to even select the sub option in the test tones that you should add in the MCH LFE menu a +10dB boost to the LFE output level, any truth to that. Yes I actually prefer the digital output sound, I'm going to do some experiments and see if I could get this MCH thing right or just buy myself a new AVR, I have some outboard amps so I just need to get an Onkyo with preouts, I'm looking at the 709 809 and the 370, this would make everything good. Thanks again jack for your help.
Jeff
 

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Jeff,
I really think the 809 is the most enticing 800 Series since the 805. The combination of HQV Vida and Marvell Qdeo Video Processing coupled with Audyssey MultEQ XT, and THX Select2 Plus Certification makes for a mighty enticing overall AVR.
Cheers,
JJ
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Jeff,
I really think the 809 is the most enticing 800 Series since the 805. The combination of HQV Vida and Marvell Qdeo Video Processing coupled with Audyssey MultEQ XT, and THX Select2 Plus Certification makes for a mighty enticing overall AVR.
Cheers,
JJ
Jack,
I just missed out on it at newegg, they had a 24Hr. sale @ $699 shipped, $400 discount, they sold out in a couple of hours. I think the 809 could drive my 5.1 speaker setup without the additional UPA-2 I have now. All speakers are 8 Ohm and 90dB effecient, they will be replaced soon with the Ascend Acoustics 340 SE's all around or 170's as surrounds. Jack I have a couple of questions if you don't mind, what do you think should take president, new speakers or new receiver? Old receiver Onk. 702, old speakers Athena F2's mains, Infinity primus 162 center(works quite well) and 162's side surrounds with Epik Legend sub(hopefully soon dual Legends). I would like to do both right now but finances won't allow. Is there a big difference between the 709 and 809 as far as video and audio processing, if not, I could get the less expensive 709 and keep the EMO amp to help with some headroom in the amp section. Sorry for all the questions, I just really respect your opinion and end up following your lead. Quick note: The lowest price on the 709 I've seen was $649 and for $50 more I can get the 809 as I'm sure the 809 will reach the $700 price point again. Thanks my friend for listening and your time.
Best regards, Jeff
 

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Jack,
I just missed out on it at newegg, they had a 24Hr. sale @ $699 shipped, $400 discount, they sold out in a couple of hours. I think the 809 could drive my 5.1 speaker setup without the additional UPA-2 I have now. All speakers are 8 Ohm and 90dB effecient, they will be replaced soon with the Ascend Acoustics 340 SE's all around or 170's as surrounds. Jack I have a couple of questions if you don't mind, what do you think should take president, new speakers or new receiver? Old receiver Onk. 702, old speakers Athena F2's mains, Infinity primus 162 center(works quite well) and 162's side surrounds with Epik Legend sub(hopefully soon dual Legends). I would like to do both right now but finances won't allow. Is there a big difference between the 709 and 809 as far as video and audio processing, if not, I could get the less expensive 709 and keep the EMO amp to help with some headroom in the amp section. Sorry for all the questions, I just really respect your opinion and end up following your lead. Quick note: The lowest price on the 709 I've seen was $649 and for $50 more I can get the 809 as I'm sure the 809 will reach the $700 price point again. Thanks my friend for listening and your time.
Best regards, Jeff
Hello,
I just wrote a long Post that I somehow deleted. So frustrating... I usually advocate Speakers before an AVR, but you have a great Subwoofer, amazing value and performance for the Dollar CC and Surrounds which means all you need are Primus Towers or Monitors so I would go with an AVR. Especially as you have a pre HDMI AVR. In addition, i really do believe Audyssey to be a game changer as well.

That price on the 809 is amazing and thankfully you can wait for it to come down in price as your HT is working. Also, the 809 appears to be the only x09 Series currently available that AC4L does not have listed. It might be worth a call to see when they are going to start offering it provided you are ok with a Refurbished AVR.

Another choice would be the TX-NR1008 from AC4L for $749. While the Video Processing would not be as stellar, it would be more powerful. (8.8 Amps versus 7.5 Amps) Also, you could always use Passthrough for VP. I do like the new Industrial Design of the x09 Series, but it certainly is worth looking at. The 3008 for 1049 is a bonkers deal there as well and is THX Ultra2. It might be worth asking Mark if he could provide any more discount on the 3008...
Cheers,
JJ
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hello,
I just wrote a long Post that I somehow deleted. So frustrating... I usually advocate Speakers before an AVR, but you have a great Subwoofer, amazing value and performance for the Dollar CC and Surrounds which means all you need are Primus Towers or Monitors so I would go with an AVR. Especially as you have a pre HDMI AVR. In addition, i really do believe Audyssey to be a game changer as well.

That price on the 809 is amazing and thankfully you can wait for it to come down in price as your HT is working. Also, the 809 appears to be the only x09 Series currently available that AC4L does not have listed. It might be worth a call to see when they are going to start offering it provided you are ok with a Refurbished AVR.

Another choice would be the TX-NR1008 from AC4L for $749. While the Video Processing would not be as stellar, it would be more powerful. (8.8 Amps versus 7.5 Amps) Also, you could always use Passthrough for VP. I do like the new Industrial Design of the x09 Series, but it certainly is worth looking at. The 3008 for 1049 is a bonkers deal there as well and is THX Ultra2. It might be worth asking Mark if he could provide any more discount on the 3008...
Cheers,
JJ
Jack,
I will look into the options you mentioned, I will contact Mark, but to be honest I don't think the 809 refurb will be much less than the new one at $699, I have to just bide my time and keep tabs at NewEgg, but the 3008 looks real enticing. Jack do you think I should consider the new Primus 363's mains or the Ascends 340SE's, I'd appreciate your thoughts please. Thanks Jack.
Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Jack,
Knowing my setup and possibly getting the 809, I would really appreciate your thoughts on the Ascends 340's or the Primus 363's? I would really like your input and anyone else who would like to add their input.
Thanks, Jeff
 

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Jeff,
I am a big believer in matching at least your Front Channels with the Center Channel. As your CC and Surrounds are Infinity, it makes a great deal of sense just to go ahead and get the P363's.

The Primus's are truly amazing for the money and are a sterling example of leveraging the R&D of much more expensive Brands like Revel and JBL Synthesis and using the expertise and much of the Design Philosophy on a far less expensive Speaker Line. What Floyd Toole and others have done at Harman is quite impressive.

They do sound their best with good amounts of current and are more difficult to drive than many other Speakers in the Primus Series pricerange. However, the Bench Tests show that the juice is well worth the squeeze. There are always tradeoffs in Speaker Design. Especially when needing to reach a much lower price than Revels and other Harman International offerings.

I really do not think unless you are willing to swap out at minimum your CC that going with the Ascends make a great deal of sense. The Ascends are wonderful Speakers, it is just you are so close to a matching 5 Channel Array.
Cheers,
JJ
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Jeff,
I am a big believer in matching at least your Front Channels with the Center Channel. As your CC and Surrounds are Infinity, it makes a great deal of sense just to go ahead and get the P363's.

The Primus's are truly amazing for the money and are a sterling example of leveraging the R&D of much more expensive Brands like Revel and JBL Synthesis and using the expertise and much of the Design Philosophy on a far less expensive Speaker Line. What Floyd Toole and others have done at Harman is quite impressive.

They do sound their best with good amounts of current and are more difficult to drive than many other Speakers in the Primus Series pricerange. However, the Bench Tests show that the juice is well worth the squeeze. There are always tradeoffs in Speaker Design. Especially when needing to reach a much lower price than Revels and other Harman International offerings.

I really do not think unless you are willing to swap out at minimum your CC that going with the Ascends make a great deal of sense. The Ascends are wonderful Speakers, it is just you are so close to a matching 5 Channel Array.
Cheers,
JJ

Thanks Jack, I was considering to swap out the primus CC and replace the front stage with three 340's and use the three 162's as side surrounds and rear channell, or get another single 162 for front height channels and use the remaing two 162's for side surrounds. Another option would be to sell the three 162's, get the three 340's upfront and 170's for side surrounds thus all Ascends. I am really confused at this point as there are so many options. You mention that the 363's need some juice, I think the Onkyo 809 could do this no matter which setup I go with and I also have the outboard EMO amp if I need it. All said and done, go with all Ascends or all Infinity? I never thought of having a matched 5.1 speaker array. I've been reading a lot of positive results of having front height channels more so than with rear or back channels. it's just hear say because I have not heard a system with height channels, and at this point I'm better off right now with 5.1 the main reason I'm leaning toward Ascend is the speakers are put together in house as ordered and no middleman, although this can be misleading too! I just have to give this some thought, I'm fairly experienced with the Infinity speakers, but I've only heard the 162's and they do sound goode and seem well built for the price.Thanks amigo.
Jeff
 

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Thanks Jack, I was considering to swap out the primus CC and replace the front stage with three 340's and use the three 162's as side surrounds and rear channell, or get another single 162 for front height channels and use the remaing two 162's for side surrounds. Another option would be to sell the three 162's, get the three 340's upfront and 170's for side surrounds thus all Ascends. I am really confused at this point as there are so many options. You mention that the 363's need some juice, I think the Onkyo 809 could do this no matter which setup I go with and I also have the outboard EMO amp if I need it. All said and done, go with all Ascends or all Infinity? I never thought of having a matched 5.1 speaker array. I've been reading a lot of positive results of having front height channels more so than with rear or back channels. it's just hear say because I have not heard a system with height channels, and at this point I'm better off right now with 5.1 the main reason I'm leaning toward Ascend is the speakers are put together in house as ordered and no middleman, although this can be misleading too! I just have to give this some thought, I'm fairly experienced with the Infinity speakers, but I've only heard the 162's and they do sound goode and seem well built for the price.Thanks amigo.
Jeff
Jeff
Indeed Internet Direct Manufacturers offer tremendous value. They have made huge inroads especially when it comes to Subwoofers. And more and more with Loudspeakers as well.

That being said, a Company like Infinity does have access of R&D Resources that small US ID Brands can only dream of. The Canadian Brands like Paradigm and PSB have greatly benefited from Canada's NRC where they have access to Anechoic Chambers and other Resources that the U.S Brands do not.

That being said, HSU Research has garnered stellar Reviews with their Horn Loaded Tweeter based Loudspeakers, but Dr. Hsu is a MIT Educated acoustic ninja. And indeed, Ascend are making fantastic Loudspeakers as well. As are some other American Brands.

If you have listened to and are interested in the Ascends. then you should definitely go for it. It is impossible for me to gauge what kind of further investments you feel comfortable making. The Primus's should certainly not be difficult to sell for a decent return.
Cheers,
JJ
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Jeff
Indeed Internet Direct Manufacturers offer tremendous value. They have made huge inroads especially when it comes to Subwoofers. And more and more with Loudspeakers as well.

That being said, a Company like Infinity does have access of R&D Resources that small US ID Brands can only dream of. The Canadian Brands like Paradigm and PSB have greatly benefited from Canada's NRC where they have access to Anechoic Chambers and other Resources that the U.S Brands do not.

That being said, HSU Research has garnered stellar Reviews with their Horn Loaded Tweeter based Loudspeakers, but Dr. Hsu is a MIT Educated acoustic ninja. And indeed, Ascend are making fantastic Loudspeakers as well. As are some other American Brands.

If you have listened to and are interested in the Ascends. then you should definitely go for it. It is impossible for me to gauge what kind of further investments you feel comfortable making. The Primus's should certainly not be difficult to sell for a decent return.
Cheers,
JJ

Jack,
I have never heard the Ascends but am relying solely on customer and pro reviews which are all positive. I'm really trying to judge with what system has the most compromises to meet price points. With the Primus 362-3 it seems that you get a lot of speaker for the asking price, likewise for the 340's. I also like the fact that companies like PSB and Paradigm have the resources that they do, I was looking at a pair of demoed Image T6's for $900, very tempting. EMP E55Ti have also been suggested. Now you throw Dr. Hsu at me, I have much respect for his work also, I don't have many opportunities to audition these speakers most are ID and the Paradigm and PSB I would have to travel to hear them. Thanks Jack for all your help, I wish some Infinity and Ascends owners might chime in here with their thoughts. Thanks again amigo.
Jeff
 

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Jeff,
I really hope that they do. As most ID Companies offer generous Return Policies, the most you will be out is Return Shipping should they not meet your expectations. As for PSB's, I am a huge fan of Paul Barton. While I am somewhat disappointed that that PSB's are now Made in China, they are Designed and Tested in Canada and the Bench Tests of every single PSB Speaker I have ever seen is utterly off the charts good.

I do think there are definite advantages to Brands that have access to state of the art R&D. Especially with Loudspeakers. I used to own a PSB Stratus HT just prior to my Paradigm Studio Reference V.2 HT and in truth only the V.2's would I think were their equals or better. PSB is one of my all time favorite Speaker Brands.

That is also a great price on the T6's. If you have not had a chance, I would also check out Saturday Audio and DMC-Electronics as they offer some great deals. I personally purchased large parts of my Stratus HT from Upscale Audio in California and they too offer some awesome deals on PSB.
Cheers,
JJ
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Jeff,
I really hope that they do. As most ID Companies offer generous Return Policies, the most you will be out is Return Shipping should they not meet your expectations. As for PSB's, I am a huge fan of Paul Barton. While I am somewhat disappointed that that PSB's are now Made in China, they are Designed and Tested in Canada and the Bench Tests of every single PSB Speaker I have ever seen is utterly off the charts good.

I do think there are definite advantages to Brands that have access to state of the art R&D. Especially with Loudspeakers. I used to own a PSB Stratus HT just prior to my Paradigm Studio Reference V.2 HT and in truth only the V.2's would I think were their equals or better. PSB is one of my all time favorite Speaker Brands.

That is also a great price on the T6's. If you have not had a chance, I would also check out Saturday Audio and DMC-Electronics as they offer some great deals. I personally purchased large parts of my Stratus HT from Upscale Audio in California and they too offer some awesome deals on PSB.
Cheers,
JJ
Thanks Jack, I need to just make up my mind and pull the trigger, I just want to make the right choice, it's been awhile since any audio purchase. Thanks nagain.
Jeff
 
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