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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi, I'm listening to my ht system with music, and not liking the output, nor sound of my, :whistling: in wall/ceiling speakers. I will be able to drive each channel at 100w/165w @ 8ohm/4ohm, respectively; or even 275w @ 4ohm with another amp. I was looking at the PE Tritrix and like it, but would want greater power handling/output. I would like to be able to use it in my ht in the future, but also as my 2 channel music speakers (likely with an 80hz xover and sub).

Do you guys think I could substitute this 5.25" Peerless to obtain my goal? , I'd consider four 5.25" drivers if the build would benefit from the addition. Or, do you think I could use this 6.5" Peerless with a similar build, only a larger(wider) cab? Another question I have is whether the tweeter would handle the increased power since it isn't getting 'beefed up' like the mids. I don't want to get into arrays, etc:nono:

To date, I've only modeled subs, so I'm a bit daunted by the prospect of calculating full-range, but is it the same process for modeling ported mids as in subs in winisd? Seems like one of these would be possible and accomplish my goal(s), but need reassurance/help on which is best.
 

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If you have everything crossed over at 80hz I think those would be able to handle the power fine with their stock configuration. I really wouldn't see them needing to be beefed up that much. How big is the room?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
If you have everything crossed over at 80hz I think those would be able to handle the power fine with their stock configuration. I really wouldn't see them needing to be beefed up that much. How big is the room?
Thanks for the reply. I like my music to fill the house at times:bigsmile: and saw that the stock mids were rated kinda low, the peerless have some specs the same, but not all and seem fairly priced right now.
I really want to avoid building a pair and wishing they could handle/output more as I have a bunch of satellite speakers around the home that can't cut it. Here's the room-hence the reason for the Mal-X:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/attachments/diy-subwoofers-sealed-ported/15040d1248931077-465l-14-5hz-maelstrom-x-sonosub-img_1002.jpg

And the description: Rear right is the 'open' wall to downstairs (~800 ft^2) with a rail that is 16ft from the wall, with the entire first floor open to upstairs. It has three doorways, a walkway, and stairs going down at the front. Actual room is oh, 16'lx14'wx8'h. It acts big.
 

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As with any speaker the crossover is designed specifically for the drivers in the speaker and simply changing to another driver, even if it is a much better much more expensive driver will just make the speaker sound worse.

What attracted you to the Tritrix kit? Is it the price? Because they are a steal, at that price I want to build a pair myself just for fun sometimes. Anyways if you can afford to spend more you should look at some other DIY projects like the Natalie P or the Dayton TMWW if you want something bigger and louder.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Hey Matt,

Yeah, it caught my attention for a several reasons, including the T-line design- the power handling/spl and bass output were my only concerns, as I'm not sure I want to rely on a sub for a nice 2 channel set. Not sure if dual 5.25"s or 6.5"s, or even an 8" will be needed/enough, yet, I don't want monstrous cabs. What do you think about that? (I'm aware of my:coocoo:-ness :rofl:)
In reality, I'd likely be looking for something along the lines you suggested. My wallet is pretty thin, so I'm looking around..do you think I could use the PCD on the page that I linked to build a TMW or MTM. I don't think there is really anything that I can demo around here other than the box store:sad:
 

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As with any speaker the crossover is designed specifically for the drivers in the speaker and simply changing to another driver, even if it is a much better much more expensive driver will just make the speaker sound worse.

+ 1

Full range speakers are much more complicated design wise than subwoofers. You cant just go changing drivers and think it will sound good. Usually, it will ruin the whole thing.

What is your budget? There are a lot of designs out there, might find something that will suit you.

Darryn
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'm thinking about the budget...can a newb to speaker design build their own speakers with various drivers (that have good documentation) using the aforementioned crossover/design calculators? That is, without becoming a mad scientist?:dumbcrazy:
 

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I'm thinking about the budget...can a newb to speaker design build their own speakers with various drivers (that have good documentation) using the aforementioned crossover/design calculators? That is, without becoming a mad scientist?:dumbcrazy:
This is about the simplest way to design and build your own speakers. Although without really measuring the actual response of the drivers in the baffle, you might not get as close as you think to it being good. But sometimes, it does come out well.

http://www.rjbaudio.com/Audiofiles/FRDtools.html
 

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I understand where you are coming from Glen. I have a very thin budget and I found that in that case usually you can't afford to build a really awesome set of 2 channel speakers that will play well full range. I ended up building a pair of microbes from RJB audio, and a cheap sub to go with them. They sound great for the price, the low end was lacking but initially clarity and accuracy of reproduction was my main goal and those speakers achieved that goal. I built a cheap sub to go with them and I have a great little 2.1 set up for not a lot of money.

However I already want something bigger, so now I'm saving up to build a pair of Dayton TMWW, unless I change my mind, heh. If I had spent the money I have on my current setup towards something else I'd be 3/5 of the way there. However starting out with a cheaper easier project allowed me a learning curve and gives me an extra set of speakers to use in another room or sell or give to a friend when all is said and done.

Having said that, my advice to you is to buy the Tritrix kit and build it per the instructions. You can't beat that price for anything. Use it as a learning experience, see if you like DIY. I guarantee they will not totally disappoint you. If you have caught the bug you will want to build something bigger and better anyways, but while you save up for that next pair you'll have the Tritrix to listen to and show off to friends and family.

I'm actually planning on building a set of Tritrix with the PE kit for use in my living room. Then I do something with the Dayton BRS-1 kit that I am using in there right now. And I still haven't put together my Madisound recession buster kit yet, but I think they'll make great desktop monitors for my PC if and when I get them done.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
That sounds like good advice- but I'm looking at a Zaph MMTMM or MTMMM design, but using parts from this NHT surplus sale using the NPT-11-081-1 5.25" Peerless mids along with a nice tweeter I'll pick up at PE or elsewhere.
Total cost for a pair ~$200
 

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Wow there are still parts available from the NHT surplus sale. I meant to get some but figured they were all long since gone by now...

Anyways just remember if you change any driver you have to rework the entire speaker and re-engineer the crossover, otherwise it could come out sounding all sorts of funky.

I have a friend right now who is trying to kludge together some speakers using only text book crossovers and no measurement equipment and every time he puts all his speakers together they're too bright, or too muddy, or just plain sound like poop. Every time he does something to try to correct it something else goes wrong.

Its kind of amusing to watch him fuss with it, but I'm glad I'm not him. Unless you want to drop a few hundred dollars on design software and equipment and then spend a couple of years learning how to use it, you're basically just spending money taking shots in the dark.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
There are many nuances to xovers for optimal sound, but I wonder how it is that many diy'ers use a standard 2 or 3 way from PE and are satisfied? I have no doubt many off the shelf speakers, even pricey ones use a 1st order or low quality xover, and thus those reviewers are pleased with improvement, but so many are satisfied, while very few are unhappy. I'm mildly interested:nerd:

At the prices of these drivers I'm looking at, I am probably going to pick up a few, for either a MMTMM 2 way or TMW, TMMW, or TMWW 3 way. I figure if I build it, it will be there while I tinker with the xover. I may try using xovers from an old 3 way cerwin vega. It looks like a nice 2nd order with steel core inductors and L pads for hi and mid and was used with a large woofer and dual mids, so I expect it to have a nice, wide midrange. If it doesn't work, I'll have to learn how to use a design program:sweat::help:

I haven't decided which design to try. The 2 way would be narrow and use (4) 5.25" drivers while the 3 way would be wider and use either 4" or 5.25" mid(s) along with 8" woofer(s). I may add that the drivers will cost me about the same either way- I've read a bit about 3 ways being superior, albeit more complicated.
 

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There are many nuances to xovers for optimal sound, but I wonder how it is that many diy'ers use a standard 2 or 3 way from PE and are satisfied?
The fact is that no DIYers worth their salt uses standard XO's from PE. That's Matt's point.

Technology has advanced to the point where we design XOs today using computer models and based on detailed speaker impendence and frequency response data for the drivers we've chosed and in the intended enclosure. Sure, there's tweaking once built, but it's usually a matter of taste, not a major changes in sonic character.

Read undefinition's blurb and all the FRD stuff first. Your approach is viable, it's just not a good place for a novice to start.

HAve fun,
Frank
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I can see from the article that I really don't want to waste money and time for mediocity. To be completely clear in what I had in mind, I was looking for a design, say MMTMM, and finding drivers that share the same qualities to substitute (near clones) along with building the design's cabinet and specially designed crossovers as well. I thought the drivers, while different, would be a small compromise when all things were considered. I wouldn't expect identical performance, yet, thought it would be a small difference in light of similar driver specifications. I just wanted to be specific in my idea; I do appreciate your input.

The link you gave for the 8" MTM project (which I like) uses another's crossover from a different project rather than a specifically designed one, no? Did the author use a proven cabinet for all of the selected drivers, not just designing it around the woofers? I ask because I'm seeing so many different aspects that influence the sound to some degree, and his project was a bit vague- guess I'll look on PE and try to find the original tested design, but a link would be appreciated if you find one.
 

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I understand what you're wanting to do. I was hoping to do the same sort of thing before I really go into the hobby. The problem is very few speakers are "pretty much the same" even if they are the same size, look exactly the same and have some similar paramters.

As for the crossover of the Dayton 8" mtm I beleive what the guy means is that he had "Wayne J from speakerbuilder.net" designed the crossover for this guy. Chances are Wayne J redid the crossover for his 5.5" dayton mtm and changed it to handle the 8" drivers. The design is a bit old so I can't find a lot of solid information on it but chances are you could e-mail the Wayne at speakerbuilder or the guy who build the first set of dayton 8 mtm and ask them for further info if you need some questions answered.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks-I was checking current prices on the parts and the post is indeed dated: prices have increased across the board, especially inductors, so the build list would be maybe $50 higher now:eek: Looks more and more like I'll be doing nothing soon:sad:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Ok, looking and thinking:ponder: The tritrix looks like a really good deal at that price and with my sub(s), it will definitely get me by for a while and curb my diy desires:dumbcrazy: So I'm really considering it, again:bigsmile:
Is the tritrix a bit too short for ht use? Seems other towers I saw had the tweeter/mid at about 36" for listening position, while the tritrix is 36" at the tippy-top. For better ht use, would it be better to angle the baffle upward a little?
 

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Yeah if you want to build something but you've only got a few dollars the Tritrix should be a really good project to hold you over for a while.

As for the height you could just build them taller. It is however important that the internal dimensions stay the same. But you can section off some empty space in the bottom to keep the inside the same but have the tweeter higher so that it is right at ear height.
 
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