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Discussion Starter #1
Hey, I'm creating a couple new subwoofer cabinets, and I'm trying to decide between the P. Audio C18-650EL and Peavy's Lo Rider. My local speaker manufacturer swears by the P. Audio ones, but Peavy's stated 9.6mm XMAX (vs P. Audio's 5mm) sounds pretty promising with all other stats being pretty similar. Has anyone used these two drivers and have any thoughts on which one would perform better?

Thanks
 

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I would not think either of those would do much serious subwoofin'.

What are you going to use them for and what kind of budget do you have?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm going to use them for dancing and whatnot; to hit what the eight 12" mids can't reach; maybe a little chest thump. I was hoping to find something under $250 apiece.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm taking them to Burning Man and will be powering them with a Behringer EP4000. There will be two dual 18" cabinets.
 

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I do not remember the drivers that Peavy uses in their own dual 18" cabinets, but we had a pair of those back when we did our DJ gig and they pounded from about 30Hz on up. We did have to replace them quite often though, that was the only aggravating part.

For $175 you can get a Mach5 Audio MJ-18M which has 15mm Xmax. They will most likely blow away anything Peavy or P. Audio has. Mark will also help you with the enclosure size if you have not already built them.
 

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I've got 4 of the MJ18's in an IB in my attic. Obivously, you can't take an IB to Burning Man, but, for the price, the MJ's continue to impress me.
 

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I'd go with the Peavey LoRider 18's. They have been shown to be a very nice budget pro driver. It's got good xmax, low distortion, low LE and shorting ring in the motor. There's nothing wrong with the P audio but the Peavey looks a bit better, plus it's cheaper. Try tuning them around 32hz. The Mach5 is a good budget 18" but it's not as efficient or optomized for this type of work.
 

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Hmmm... I would say the MJ18's would blow smoke at the Peavy's. Remember these are traditionally built for cars and tuning to 30Hz is ideal... also perfect for dance music and that chest pounding. 15mm over 9mm Xmax for extra protection. Plus, efficiency is 90.85db, not bad at all... as well as you have plenty of power with that EP4000.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for the responses. I hesitate on the mj18s for a couple reasons. First I've seen some poor reviews of them. Second, 90 SPL isn't particularly good compared to the 97.9 and 97.3 that the other two get. Fourth, their own website has pretty poor information about the drivers. And third, their 3" voice coil doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in terms of the actual power handling of the speaker. I would highly doubt it performs as well as they claim.
 

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Looking around here at the Shack all I have seen is good reviews. I believe Mike P., one of our Admin's, uses these... or maybe the model before these. 90db SPL is fine and very good for your amp. Actually you will have more power than you will most likely ever use.

I would certainly not judge a driver's power handling solely by its voice coil. I run four Fi Audio Q18's with a pair of EP2500's and they only use 3" voice coils. They will shake your teeth out when the walls come tumbling down. :hsd:

What info you looking for?

From their website:

The Mach 5 Audio MJ-18M draws upon the legacy of the legendary MJ-18, the driver by which Mach 5 Audio has become world renowned. Exemplary performance for its class, the 'budget' MJ-18M 18 inch subwoofer 'punches well above its weight' - its efficient design will rival that of drivers costing much more. The MJ-18M is an extremely versatile unit, providing effortless bass in large enclosures and Infinite Baffle systems, sealed automotive configurations, or large home cinema/theatre Bass Reflex systems.
Features
  • Excellent for home audio, home cinema/theatre and car audio applications
  • 3" single high temperature voice coil
  • Thick pulp cone with heavy foam surround
  • Wrap-around rubber gasket
  • Double stacked motor
  • Vented pole
  • Up to 700 watts RMS power handling
  • Twelve months warranty
Parameters
  • Power handling: 700 watts RMS
  • Sensitivity: 94.2db (2.83 volts)
  • Impedance: 4 ohm (SVC)
Dimensions
  • Outside Diameter: 46cm (18 1/8")
  • Mounting diameter: 41.9cm (16 1/2")
  • Depth: 20.3cm (8")
T/S Parameters
  • Fs: 24 hz
  • Re: 3.6 ohms
  • Qes: 0.37
  • Qms: 5.59
  • Qts: 0.36
  • Mms: 316.6 grams
  • Rms: 8.5 kg/s
  • Cms: 0.14 mm/N
  • Vas: 210 litres
  • Sd: 1029.2cm2
  • Bl: 21.3
  • Xmax: 15 mm (one way linear)
  • Cone Diameter: 36.2cm
Recommended Box Sizes
  • Sealed: 93 litres (3.3 cu.ft.)
  • Ported: 142 litres (5 cu.ft.) 30hz tuning
  • EBS: 283 litres (10 cu.ft.) 18hz tuning

Here's a WinISD comparison if you ran both at maximum excursion with high pass filters on both. This is a very likely scenario for club music and with both of these drivers having limited excursion to begin with.

 

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Guys I have to strongly disagree here.

I'm sure that the MJ18's are great budget drivers, and if I was looking for a budget all around 18" bass driver or subwoofer for HT I'd reccomend them, but I agree with the OP here. The motor is not going to be as good as the one on the pro woofers and it will not have as high of a thermal power handling regardless of ratings. Again the shorting rings in the Peavey motor will allow it to have lower inductance, smoother upper bass response, and lower distortion. Again I don't normally place a huge emphasis on inductance in subwoofers but the OP is looking for woofers that will have to get cleanly and powerfully up to 120hz at the minimum. It will likely have lower power compression as well. He does not need more than 10mm xmax for >30hz response in a vented enclosure and the xmech is well past that anyway. All I can say is if this was my project I'd buy the Peavey's not the MJ18's.
 

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Strongly is a strong word... :bigsmile:

He can go with the Peavey's if he wants, but I hold to my opinion that the Mach5 will smoke the Peavey's all day long. If I had known about better drivers back when we had our dual 18" Peavey subs, I don't think we would have been replacing those drivers near as often. We even consistently replaced the 15" drivers in our Peavey towers. Bailey Brothers Music Company knew us by first name and we were constantly asking for better drivers. I just do not believe Peavey drivers can hold up to what the Mach5 drivers can do. And 30Hz will definitely push a driver past its Xmax, especially if it is only 9-10mm. Been there and done that! :huh:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Interesting. Thanks again for all the great responses. Another thing worth pointing out is that we will be running off generators with a fixed wattage, which is another reason why sensitivity is king. From what I understand +3db spl is roughly equal to doubling your wattage, so wouldn't that 97db driver put out the same sound as the 94db one with half the wattage?
 

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He's looking for dual 18" vented cabs that will be used in a pro audio setting from what I can tell, which means being pushed very loudly, possibly for hours, or even all day long. Modeling both the drivers with inductance in a 30hz tuned enclosure suitable for each, 5ft for the MJ and 6ft tuned to 32hz for the Peavey shows an efficiency advantage for the Peavey everywhere from 40hz up which is the meat of the range it will be getting. Above 50hz it's 2 or 3db and balloons to well more than that above 80hz which basically means that the MJ will need twice the power input to generate the same spl in the 40-120hz range. The Peavey's should handle 500w all day long in that cab without exceeding xmax. I doubt that the MJ is going to handle 1000w thermally all day in the same live setting without serious compression plus the OP doesn't have that much power available. At most it would be 500 or 600w per driver and the Peavey's will make better use of it. The MJ's will be stronger at 25-35hz sure, but that is a small part of the bandwidth and he'll likely be running the 30hz HPF with either anyway. IMHO high xmax is overrated for this application. I don't think the MJ is using all of it's xmax even with 1000w input in the 5ft box.

I'm not saying that the MJ's aren't a good driver I just think the application is not the best for them. If it was why wouldn't dozens of pro audio manufacturer's be using similar drivers? It's not like it's a novel driver using ground breaking new technology or anything. It's just a smartly designed budget driver with sensible attributes.
 

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Icnivad you posted while I was writing my novel .:reading: Yes. that was basically my point to all of that gibberish. BTW we aren't arguing we are vigorously discussing the subject :yes:.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Yeah. and I really appreciate all of the thoughtful responses and input here. A lot of this is over my head but I'm learning a tremendous amount and am just realizing and trying to balance the idea that there is no "better" driver, just "better for the specific application". I ordered a single Peavy, and already own a P. Audio and will do a side by side sound test once the Peavy arrives and will order 3 more of whatever I like better. I am interested in seeing how the MJ would compare. It sounds like they would do great in a home setting where you are trying to get that 15-30 hz rumble, but in this setting, I think Ricci hit it right on the head; we'll be playing loud music for days on end in a hot desert trying to hit 40-60 hz and I doubt the MJ will hold up as well over that timeframe.

This is a great conversation and I'm amazed how much you guys know. Thanks
 

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If you have ever worked in a night club or owned a DJ setup, of which I did for umpteen dozen years, it begins to make a bit more sense why those drivers that Peavey makes are not that great and have to be constantly replaced. They are made for guitars and band instruments, not 2 Pac, Jay Z, Fat Joe, Trick Daddy and Kool Moe Dee at 500 watts. In a nutshell... Peavey does NOT design them for "dance" music. Now... if you are playing 50's and 60's or country dance music or maybe some square dancing Polka music, you will be fine with the Peavey drivers. But, Uncle Luke and Tone Loc will have a little something to say to your Lo Riders. :T

The only reason I recommended the Mach5's was because of your budget. If you want something that will hold up even better, buy the Fi Audio Q18's or the Exodus Mal-X. My 89db Q18's will scream plenty loud enough on dance music with very little gain on the EP2500. And yes I have been playin' a bit of Michael Jackson lately... just don't tell anyone. :whistling:
 

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Sonnie,

We obviously have different opinions on this, but I have worked in bars/nightclubs and have and do own a PA which has been through many changes over the years. I also occasionally work with a small sound rental outfit here in Louisville and I also have continuosly gigged at clubs for the past 12years. I'd say that I have quite a bit of experience with live sound/DJ/ PA equipment and subs too. If you are frying or overexcursioning your subs then something is not set-up right or you are just plain running them too hard (it happens). With HPF's and correctly sized amplification for the drivers used, that's run below heavy clipping, not to mention some limiting applied, your subs should be fine for a good long time.

Are the MJ-18M's even available at this time? Seems like they haven't been for a long time now.
 
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