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Discussion Starter #1
I think I decided on a driver a 12" Peerless XXSL driver. I plan on building a box with two passive radiators. I'm also researching a augmented PR design and may try that. The matching peerless pr is only $12 less then the active driver. Which seems quite expensive especially if I need two. I was thinking of using the PR from Dayton. What do you think? Do they have to be matching brand? Has anyone built a augmented PR design subwoofer? I plan on using an plat amp that maxes out at 450w 4ohm.
 

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steve i am attempting a similar project it may be of some assistance to you
i wouldnt think yhat the pr's would make any differance as long as they have similar ts specs
please read my post re peerless help
cheers speedie
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I couldn't find ts under the peerless driver specifications or the CSS PRs? Where do I get that? Looking at the volume of air a 15" compared to a 12" PR. Would it be alright to have 1 15" PR then two 12". The VAP for the CSS 15" was 463 compared to 156 for 12".

Is there any good 15" drivers that can be ran off of a 450 4 ohm amp? The CSS site doesn't specify the needed RMS wattage the 15 inch driver needs.
 

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I couldn't find ts under the peerless driver specifications or the CSSPRs?
What model number of 12" XXLS are you referring to? There is more then one.The CSS PR specs are here:

http://creativesound.ca/pdf/APRG.pdf
Would it be alright to have 1 15" PR then two 12"
Post the T/S parameters for the Peerless sub and we'll see.

The CSS site doesn't specify the needed RMS wattage the 15 inch driver needs.
The SDX15 is rated at 1000 watts.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
12" XLS
SWR 308
Thiele Small parameters: Free air Common Baffled
Nominal impedance Zn (ohm) 8
Minimum impedance/at freq. Zmin (ohm/Hz) 4.7/106
Maximum impedance Zo (ohm) 64.2
DC resistance Re (ohm) 3.5
Voice coil inductance Le (mH) 4.2
Capacitor in series with 8 ohm
(for impedance compensation) Cc (μF) 38
Resonance Frequency fs (Hz) 18.1 18.1
Mechanical Q factor Qms 3.70 3.70
Electrical Q factor Qes 0.21 0.21
Total Q factor Qts 0.20 0.20
F (Ratio fs/Qts) F (Hz) 90
Mechanical resistance Rms (Kg/s) 5.12
Moving mass Mms (g) 166.3 166.4
Suspension compliance Cms (mm/N) 0.46
Effective cone diameter D (cm) 24.4
Effective piston area Sd (cm²) 466
Equivalent volume VAS (ltrs) 139.2
Force factor Bl (N/A) 17.6
Reference voltage sensitivity
Re 2.83V 1m at 106 Hz (Measured) (dB) 90.6
Magnet and voice coil parameters:
Voice coil diameter d (mm) 51
Voice coil length h (mm) 33
Voice coil layers n 4
Flux density in gap B (T) 1.04
Total useful flux (mWb) 2.50
Height of the gap hg (mm) 8
Diameter of magnet dm (mm) 147
Height of magnet hm (mm) 35
Weight of magnet (kg) 2.42

12" XXLS 830847
Znom 4 ohm
Re 2.5 ohm
Le 1.8 mH
fs 21.8 Hz
Qms 10.24
Qes 0.37
Qts 0.36
Mms 110.9 g
Cms 0.48 mm/N
Sd 466 cm2
BL 10.2 N/A
Vas 144.2 ltrs
Xmax 12.5 mm peak
Voice Coil Ø 51 mm
Sensitivity
2.83V / 1m 92 dB
Power (IEC) 350 W
Magnet weight 2.4 kg

XXLS 12 835017

Nominal Impedance 4 ohm
DC Resistance (Re) 2.6 ohm
Voice Coil Inductance (Le) 1.8 mH
Effective Piston Area (Sd) 466 cm2
Voice Coil Diameter 51 mm
Voice Coil Height 33 mm
Air Gap Height 8 mm
Linear Coil Travel (peak) 12.5 mm
Maximum excursion (peak) T
Magnet Weight 2.2 kg
Net Weight kg
Free Air Resonance 19.4 Hz
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) 90.6 dB
Mechanical Q-factor (Qms) 7.8
Electrical Q-factor (Qes) .36
Total Q-factor (Qts) .34
Moving Mass incl. air (Md) 119.2 g
Force Factor (BL) 10.4 Tm
Equivalent Volume (Vas) 169 l
Compliance (Cms) 0.56 um/N
Mechanical Loss (Rm) 1.86 kg/s
Rated Power Handling 175 Watt
Overall diameter 308.5 mm
Cutout diameter 278 mm
Flange thickness 5.4 mm
Depth 144.2 mm
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I have not purchased it yet. I will purchase whichever will work best with all of parts. So if one model driver will work better with another passive radiator then I will purchase that one.

Do you know of any 15" drivers that would work under 450 watts 4ohm amp?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: Peerless VS. Dayton Who makes a better 12" sub?

In another thread you mentioned a 500w amp to power the Dayton 15". The specs on the Dayton 15" says 800w RMS/ 1100 max. Will 500w be enough to power the 15". I have a 450w 4 Ohm amp I'm trying to find a driver for. I'm thinking the bigger the better but it seems most 15" are asking for 1000w. Will my amp be able to drive the Dayton appropriately?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yes my amp has a high pass filter. I already have one sub a Vandersteen V2W. I was thinking having the Vandersteen sub carry the 80hz to 50hz range and have the new sub I'm building to start filtering at the 40-50hz range. But I was going to play with it to see what sounds best when I try to blend them together. I'm looking for more punch then the Vandersteen gives at the low end. The Vanderteen starts rolling off steeply at 35hz . I was going to use make the sub look like a coffee table which I can go 24"x24"x36 at max. Smaller the better but I have some room to make it work.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I already have the amp so I figured I would build a system around it. I have some Aura Bass shakers I don't use any more being powered by that amp. Originally I was thinking 12" and the Peerless driver and 2 passive. I heard good things about it. Then looking at the passive radiators they were quite expensive compared to some other brands passive. So with cheaper passives I might be able to up the size of the main driver. I was hoping for less then $500.00 but I usually go over budget about 30% so my really budget is about $650. I would like to keep all of the driver/PR costing at max $450.

Volume doesn't need to be that big. I was just going go to a size of box where it doesn't really matter. I figured the WinISD program would show me the optimal size.

My room is 12 width x 36 lenght x 8 height

Someone was referencing AV15-X as a good 15" driver that can be powered by a 450 amp. So I was thinking maybe that driver. At one point I was looking at creating an augumented PR box.

http://aespeakers.com/shop/catalog/...id=68&osCsid=7677db0c60792fc7ab30062347d47413
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I just found the specification sheet for my amp. It's a 150 @ 8 ohm, 250 @ 4ohm .1% thd. High pass filter at 125hz at 8 ohm. Looks like I can give up doing a 15".

So back to my original question Different speaker & PR should be fine.
 

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Your amps power doesn't limit your choice of driver size. If you're willing to build a 24"x24"x36"box, even with just 240 watts a 15" will out perform a 12". Yellow and green are 12" subs, Pink is a 15 inch sub. All are modeled with 240 watts. White would be the 15" with a future upgraded amp to 500 watts, same box, same tuning. Something you may want to consider. As you can see the SDX15 outperforms the SD12 and the Shiva-X. These are ported models, it would spare the expense of passive radiators. Just another option for you to think about.

sdx15.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #18
What SPL level should I be aiming for? I usually run my sound processor between -9 and -12 db. I calebrate the system at 75 DB. Does SPL depend on room size?

Running a 12" Peerless XXLS I would be putting out around 103 DB. Running the 15" CCS SDX15 with a passive I would be putting out 108 DB. Ported it would be 110 DB.
 
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