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Can you post a picture of the configuration screen on the Onkyo? Have you run AccuEQ or manually calibrated speaker distance and level? The effect may be very subtle in some movies. I haven't tried TMNT yet, but Transformers 4 was a disappointment to me. Try the Dolby surround upmixer with a standard movie soundtrack or even some two-channel audio and your height speakers should be active. There is a demo disc from Dolby but it was distributed to retailers and other contacts within the industry. Good luck finding one.
image-4132773522.jpg

Yes I ran EQ. There were parts of TMNT that I could here the overhead channels pretty good, you need to try that movie.
 

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Discussion Starter · #122 ·
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Yes I ran EQ. There were parts of TMNT that I could here the overhead channels pretty good, you need to try that movie.
Looks like you are properly set up. I will probably give TMNT a try soon. It might honestly be worth starting a thread here to list good demo scenes from Atmos-enabled Blu-rays as the selection grows.
 

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Peter, I wish I could speak for the atmos version,as I'm set up for it. But, I have to say, the core 7.1 track is absolutely outstanding. Lots of nuanced bass in different textures. Well done all the way around. Since I'm in your "atmos" thread, I'll ask your thoughts on DTS-X. It seems we'll have to choose one or the other, but details are sketchy so far(that I can find). How do you think it'll compare? I've see it championed in other places due to what's said to be a less intrusive installation,while matching performance. Just wondering what you think.
 

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Discussion Starter · #124 ·
Peter, I wish I could speak for the atmos version,as I'm set up for it. But, I have to say, the core 7.1 track is absolutely outstanding. Lots of nuanced bass in different textures. Well done all the way around.
I have found myself to be in the minority regarding this one. I have swapped out the Yamaha for a Denon now (Yamaha review long overdue but coming soon) so I'll be going through the movie collection again for the Denon review. I'll revisit TF4 as the Denon is Atmos capable as well. I agree there is some fantastic bass and lots of sound elements during the action sequences.


Since I'm in your "atmos" thread, I'll ask your thoughts on DTS-X. It seems we'll have to choose one or the other, but details are sketchy so far(that I can find). How do you think it'll compare? I've see it championed in other places due to what's said to be a less intrusive installation,while matching performance. Just wondering what you think.
DTS:X info is still pretty scarce but it sounds like a contender. Dolby and DTS formats have survived side by side for a while now so we may not be forced to choose one or the other exclusively. Although I have somewhat committed to Atmos with my in-ceiling speaker installation, I'm hoping to let more of the dust settle around the new formats before buying a receiver. Hopefully there will be some options with both DTS:X available for us to review later this year.
 

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Anyone found a good Demo disc for Atmos? Have my setup in but want to see if it is working correctly, watched the turtles the other night and it seemed like it was working correct but am wondering if there is a good demo. Current set up is 7.2.4 using front highs as top fronts.
There are some Dolby Atmos demos available at http://www.demo-world.eu/2d-demo-trailers-hd/
Scroll down to the Dolby section. Be sure to download the lossless versions, which preserve the Atmos metadata.

Edited to add:

None of the feature-length Atmos movies released so far make much use of the overheads, although many of their soundtracks seem to have taken advantage of the better control available when placing audio objects. Even movies which were released in cinemas as Atmos but which have been released on BD with DTS-HD MA soundtracks sound very good. Maze Runner seems to be the one people like the most in that regard, especially when upmixed using the new Dolby Surround upmixer.
 

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Peter, I wish I could speak for the atmos version,as I'm set up for it. But, I have to say, the core 7.1 track is absolutely outstanding. Lots of nuanced bass in different textures. Well done all the way around. Since I'm in your "atmos" thread, I'll ask your thoughts on DTS-X. It seems we'll have to choose one or the other, but details are sketchy so far(that I can find). How do you think it'll compare? I've see it championed in other places due to what's said to be a less intrusive installation,while matching performance. Just wondering what you think.
Yes, not much out on DTS:X at this point, but they have been saying that it will conform to your speaker layout. So in theory a properly set up Atmos system will be fully usable when setting up for and playing DTS:X tracks. Now, whether they have come up with a layout that they deem ideal for use with their mixes is yet to be announced (supposed to know more in March I guess). But at least DTS vs Dolby is not like Auro 3D vs Dolby . . . IOW I expect DTS:X and Dolby Atmos will coexist in the future, just as the TrueHD and DTS-HDMA codecs have for the past several years. Whether Auro will continue to coexist (or exist at all), as it can in current Denon Atmos receivers, is more debatable IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #127 ·
None of the feature-length Atmos movies released so far make much use of the overheads, although many of their soundtracks seem to have taken advantage of the better control available when placing audio objects. Even movies which were released in cinemas as Atmos but which have been released on BD with DTS-HD MA soundtracks sound very good. Maze Runner seems to be the one people like the most in that regard, especially when upmixed using the new Dolby Surround upmixer.
I have noticed this as well. Gravity is another one that seems to have benefited from the Atmos cinema mix (although I believe it will also get a future Atmos release on Blu-ray). It sounds great with the new Dolby upmixer. Thanks for the tip about Maze Runner, I may take a look at that one too.

Yes, not much out on DTS:X at this point, but they have been saying that it will conform to your speaker layout. So in theory a properly set up Atmos system will be fully usable when setting up for and playing DTS:X tracks. Now, whether they have come up with a layout that they deem ideal for use with their mixes is yet to be announced (supposed to know more in March I guess). But at least DTS vs Dolby is not like Auro 3D vs Dolby . . . IOW I expect DTS:X and Dolby Atmos will coexist in the future, just as the TrueHD and DTS-HDMA codecs have for the past several years. Whether Auro will continue to coexist (or exist at all), as it can in current Denon Atmos receivers, is more debatable IMO.
My thoughts exactly. We shall see.
 

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What are thoughts on overhead speakers for Atmos? My center, left and right are triad in room golds and my surrounds and rears are niles fx770 bi pole di pole and are set to bi pole, I was thinking about the niles cm7fx for the four atmos in the ceiling. Thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #129 ·
What are thoughts on overhead speakers for Atmos? My center, left and right are triad in room golds and my surrounds and rears are niles fx770 bi pole di pole and are set to bi pole, I was thinking about the niles cm7fx for the four atmos in the ceiling. Thoughts?
My honest opinion is that $200+ each for Atmos ceiling speakers is overkill, but if you are happy with your existing Niles gear and have the budget for the CM7FX in the ceiling, I think they'll do a fine job. How far above your head (seated) will the ceiling speakers be? If they are high enough, and you don't have many seats in the room, you could probably go with a single tweeter design and be just fine. Mine have a single pivoting tweeter and work well for me with a 9ft ceiling height.
 

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My honest opinion is that $200+ each for Atmos ceiling speakers is overkill, but if you are happy with your existing Niles gear and have the budget for the CM7FX in the ceiling, I think they'll do a fine job. How far above your head (seated) will the ceiling speakers be? If they are high enough, and you don't have many seats in the room, you could probably go with a single tweeter design and be just fine. Mine have a single pivoting tweeter and work well for me with a 9ft ceiling height.
My ceilings are standard 8', I first tried using speakers I had already, but just not satisfied, and the niles cm7fx are a close Mach to the surrounds I have.
 

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Discussion Starter · #131 ·
My ceilings are standard 8', I first tried using speakers I had already, but just not satisfied, and the niles cm7fx are a close Mach to the surrounds I have.
The most ideal case would be very closely matched speakers throughout the room, so I think the Niles speakers will integrate well with the rest of your system.
 

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I have been talking back and forth with niles and they were saying the fx series are just for surrounds and backs, and I should go with the hd series. After reading Dolby Atmos instructions it makes me wonder what one to use. The fx is a bi pole di pole switchable speaker that I think would work better for atmos ceiling speakers if I set them to bi pole wouldn't I get what Dolby wants? More of a diffused dispersion? Here is the last thing I sent niles with no response yet. What speaker would have a wider dispersion rate? CM7fx or CM7HD? These are instructon from Dolby. Dolby Atmos audio is mixed using discrete, full-range audio objects that may move around anywhere in three-dimensional space. With this in mind, overhead speakers should complement the frequency response, output, and power-handling capabilities of the listener-level speakers. Choose overhead speakers that are timbre matched as closely as possible to the primary listener-level speakers. Overhead speakers with a wide dispersion pattern are desirable for use in a Dolby Atmos system. This will ensure the closest replication of the cinematic environment, where overhead speakers are placed high above the listeners. 45 degrees speakers may be mounted facing directly downward. For speakers with narrower dispersion patterns, those with aimable or angled elements should be angled toward the primary listening position.
 

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Discussion Starter · #133 ·
I have been talking back and forth with niles and they were saying the fx series are just for surrounds and backs, and I should go with the hd series. After reading Dolby Atmos instructions it makes me wonder what one to use. The fx is a bi pole di pole switchable speaker that I think would work better for atmos ceiling speakers if I set them to bi pole wouldn't I get what Dolby wants? More of a diffused dispersion? Here is the last thing I sent niles with no response yet. What speaker would have a wider dispersion rate? CM7fx or CM7HD? These are instructon from Dolby. Dolby Atmos audio is mixed using discrete, full-range audio objects that may move around anywhere in three-dimensional space. With this in mind, overhead speakers should complement the frequency response, output, and power-handling capabilities of the listener-level speakers. Choose overhead speakers that are timbre matched as closely as possible to the primary listener-level speakers. Overhead speakers with a wide dispersion pattern are desirable for use in a Dolby Atmos system. This will ensure the closest replication of the cinematic environment, where overhead speakers are placed high above the listeners. 45 degrees speakers may be mounted facing directly downward. For speakers with narrower dispersion patterns, those with aimable or angled elements should be angled toward the primary listening position.
They are basically saying that the best case would be a surround system consisting of identical (or perfectly timbre-matched), mono-pole speakers, placed far enough from the listening area that they were difficult to localize and would distribute sound fairly equally to all seating positions. Dipole speakers help to create a more diffused surround sound in cases where they must be placed fairly close to the listener(s), which is very common in home theater. Again, if you can timbre match all of your speakers that's excellent. If not, don't obsess over it.

How many seating positions do you have? If you have just one row of two or three seats I think you'd be ok to go with a monopole (single tweeter) design and place them within Dolby's guidelines for Atmos installations (available on their website I believe). Wide dispersion is more critical if you have more seats to cover, i.e. two or more rows, or if you are stuck with a seating location that is significantly off-axis from the speakers.
 

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I think the ideal situation is to have monopole ceiling speakers that are aimable (which means in-ceiling speakers with aimable drivers OR on-ceiling speakers on brackets or with a non-square box that points the drivers to the listening position more or less). Having speakers that fire straight to the floor is probably not ideal unless you really can keep all your seats within their dispersion pattern. Not easy to do with standard 8' ceilings (if your ceilings are 12' it would be much easier). Also, obtaining the dispersion pattern of most consumer-level speakers is just about impossible, since most companies making speakers for residential use do not publish that information. Even if they do, they will not tell you how far up in frequency that dispersion angle applies.

The problem I see with a bipole speaker on the ceiling is that you will have half of the array pointing at you, but the other half pointing away and filling the room with additional reflections that are probably not ideal.
 

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I have a So nance 5150 amp and like the quality of it so in searching for some good speakers for overhead found 2 sets of the 624tr speakers for 350 used. They are like new and cost the original owner 1400 bucks. They actually show measurements for dispersion pattern to make it easy to find were to locate. Have two in already and they sound great.
 

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Discussion Starter · #139 ·
I have a So nance 5150 amp and like the quality of it so in searching for some good speakers for overhead found 2 sets of the 624tr speakers for 350 used. They are like new and cost the original owner 1400 bucks. They actually show measurements for dispersion pattern to make it easy to find were to locate. Have two in already and they sound great.
Excellent! Curious - could you elaborate on the dispersion pattern measurements? Did they come with a diagram of the pattern or specs in terms of response over a range of angles?
 

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It was cone shaped dispersion diagram at different ceiling heights and showed measurements at standing and seated. I will find it and see if I can post it.
 
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