Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

21 - 40 of 44 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
I know this is a controversial subject and am not trying to stir up anything. However, after using stock power cords for years and I like to try some aftermarket power cords to see what kind of impact, if any, they would have on my system. Not being knowledgeable about power cords I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction. My equipment consists of the following equipment with (PC) indication what needs a power cord exists:

Electronics
Krell 20i CD player (PC)
Innous Zenith MK3 music Server (PC)
Bryston SP3 Pre/Pro (PC)
YBA 2 Amplifier for Primary Gen V Speakers (PC)
2 YBA 2 Amplifiers (for surround and center) (2PC)
Torus AVR20 (toroidal Isolation Power transformer) (PC)

Speakers
Genesis Advanced Technologies V Speakers with external servo-amp (PC)
Genesis Advanced Technology 4/8 subwoofer with internal servo-amp (PC)
Genesis Advanced Technologies Surround Speakers (3 )

Since I have a requirement for 9 power cords, I will start with a couple of PC and then add more as finance allows if I feel its worthwhile. What pieces of equipment would provide the biggest bang for the buck? Roughly how much money does it take to start hearing true benefits and what is the price point for diminishing returns from a new power cord? Are there certain brands that offer more value so I can keep costs down?
Thanks
Joe
Many of us have already told you the truth, but you decline to believe it. In such a case as yours go ahead and buy a bunch of expensive power cords, reduce your anxiety and enjoy the peace of mind that comes from knowing you have the best power cords.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
Thank you everyone for your assistance. I will get back to you if I have further questions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Agree a big power amp that draws heavily needs 10 AWG make your own just make sure there are no stray wires
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
You might try a pair of interconnects from BlueJeans Cable. If you find that you really like them great. If you don't like them as much as those that you hear a significant differenc you would likely be out less then $50 with shipping. If that is too much to risk, you can just get a few feet of their cable types and a couple of pair of rca connectors.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
That tells me a lot. A PCB trace is a printed Circuit Board trace.

I have both a 15 amp (14 gauge wire from garage fuse box - 45 feet) and 20 amp (12 gauge wire from Meter fuse box -35 feet)) dedicated line (solid Romex) to the wall behind my equipment. the 20 amp circuit feed a Torus Power isolation transformer AVR 20 amp. At this time the 20 Amp circuit being used for all equipment. I tried the 15 amp line but have a ground loop hum which I am going to use a Ground Zero Star Ground system to hopefully eliminate . The ground is the standard house ground from the fuse box but can look into a dedicated ground if necessary and if it doesn't violate any country ordinance.

I am presently using the cheap Home Depot outlets which I know I have to replace.
IMO, although 25 years old the Genesis Advanced Technologies V speaker are very good speakers and since they have their own dedicated servo amp for the base, I do not need a lot of power for the mids and highs.

I do not feel comfortable changing out wiring within the equipment. What is a PCB Trace?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Frankly, I don't know what that is.

This is going to be long and will no doubt upset some people. If you flame me, we will all know I am correct and you are not. If you ask me sensible questions, I will try my best to provide a honest and unbiased answer. Science and facts have no bias.

However, all interconnects are after market. Changing out a properly designed power cord is not worth the expense and hassle. Neither will it improve anything.

Let's get real here. You can not "improve" the sound that is on your recorded media.Sure, throwing an EQ into the system will change the sound, possibly in the direction you like. More bass, flatter mids..... I guess that is an improvement. hah!

A recording consists of audio to electrical transducer, connected to a mixer, often through many stages of sound modifying equipment interconnected with what are commonly called snakes. Mogami is often the snake of choice in a recording environment. They are really nothing special. The modified sound is then recorded on to some storage medium. The sound is now fixed.

At home you may play it back from analog storage medium, or digital. The former's quality will be determined by the mechanical to electrical transducer. That is an important part of the playback system. And vibration can have a negative impact on the transducer's capability to convert the mechanical energy to electrical energy.

If it is the latter, the approximated, sampled, sound is what you get. The laser reads pits in a plastic covered metal disk, often made of aluminum. Vibration or a special green magic maker on the edge of the disk will have NO effect. It's ones & zeros, period.

Whatever interconnects you use, unless they are pure ****, will not make the sound any better. Plus, are you going to change the wiring in your tonearm, speakers and equipment? However, there is another transducer that will also have a major impact on the reproduced sound. That is your speakers, an electrical to mechanical transducer. We normally chose speakers that "talk" to us. Hopefully they will sound as good at home as in the store. Some choose speakers and other pieces of their equipment based on cost. The more it cost, the better it must be, right? Again, I'm not talking about **** here. Those people tend to listen to and talk about their expensive equipment, not listen to the music.

Much of the popular music that is recorded today is very compressed so there is no dynamic range so it can easily be played loud. Why spend big bucks just to play it loud?

I did a double blind test for a stereo mag in the mid 1970's for some speaker cable that was just being introduced and was supposed to be the cat's meow. Everything was controlled with witnesses and all that stuff. The attendees listened and wrote their comments. Often they asked to have it changed back and forth.. All witnessed and at the end signed off by everyone. they all said they could discern the difference. I never changed the cables once, which was verified by the witnesses. The speakers were fed with #12 zipcord. The new "better" cable just laid there, never touched. You should have heard the howling.

That my friend, was the effect of psychoacoustics. And there are many many vendors out there using that to pry money from your wallet as I type.

I'm an engineer and I've been involved in the audio world for over 60 years. And yes, my hearing is becoming lossy. But I still enjoy my music, and playing live music.

IMHO, the important takeaway I want to finally present is that this is a hobby. Enjoy it. Spend as much or as little as you wish. Don't belittle someone else's system. You might learn something there. Remember the term, psychoacoustics. And to be cognizant that physics always wins, be sure which side you choose..

Can I ask have you ever tried an aftermarket power cord , RCA or XLR cables ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Yep your right you just denigrated every music playback system with your superior knowledge. I don't care different cables , including power cables bring about changes in the sound. Sometimes the enjoyment is the shiny new object ever thought of that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,014 Posts
Frankly, I don't know what that is.

This is going to be long and will no doubt upset some people. If you flame me, we will all know I am correct and you are not. If you ask me sensible questions, I will try my best to provide a honest and unbiased answer. Science and facts have no bias.

However, all interconnects are after market. Changing out a properly designed power cord is not worth the expense and hassle. Neither will it improve anything.

Let's get real here. You can not "improve" the sound that is on your recorded media.Sure, throwing an EQ into the system will change the sound, possibly in the direction you like. More bass, flatter mids..... I guess that is an improvement. hah!

A recording consists of audio to electrical transducer, connected to a mixer, often through many stages of sound modifying equipment interconnected with what are commonly called snakes. Mogami is often the snake of choice in a recording environment. They are really nothing special. The modified sound is then recorded on to some storage medium. The sound is now fixed.

At home you may play it back from analog storage medium, or digital. The former's quality will be determined by the mechanical to electrical transducer. That is an important part of the playback system. And vibration can have a negative impact on the transducer's capability to convert the mechanical energy to electrical energy.

If it is the latter, the approximated, sampled, sound is what you get. The laser reads pits in a plastic covered metal disk, often made of aluminum. Vibration or a special green magic maker on the edge of the disk will have NO effect. It's ones & zeros, period.

Whatever interconnects you use, unless they are pure *, will not make the sound any better. Plus, are you going to change the wiring in your tonearm, speakers and equipment? However, there is another transducer that will also have a major impact on the reproduced sound. That is your speakers, an electrical to mechanical transducer. We normally chose speakers that "talk" to us. Hopefully they will sound as good at home as in the store. Some choose speakers and other pieces of their equipment based on cost. The more it cost, the better it must be, right? Again, I'm not talking about * here. Those people tend to listen to and talk about their expensive equipment, not listen to the music.

Much of the popular music that is recorded today is very compressed so there is no dynamic range so it can easily be played loud. Why spend big bucks just to play it loud?

I did a double blind test for a stereo mag in the mid 1970's for some speaker cable that was just being introduced and was supposed to be the cat's meow. Everything was controlled with witnesses and all that stuff. The attendees listened and wrote their comments. Often they asked to have it changed back and forth.. All witnessed and at the end signed off by everyone. they all said they could discern the difference. I never changed the cables once, which was verified by the witnesses. The speakers were fed with #12 zipcord. The new "better" cable just laid there, never touched. You should have heard the howling.

That my friend, was the effect of psychoacoustics. And there are many many vendors out there using that to pry money from your wallet as I type.

I'm an engineer and I've been involved in the audio world for over 60 years. And yes, my hearing is becoming lossy. But I still enjoy my music, and playing live music.

IMHO, the important takeaway I want to finally present is that this is a hobby. Enjoy it. Spend as much or as little as you wish. Don't belittle someone else's system. You might learn something there. Remember the term, psychoacoustics. And to be cognizant that physics always wins, be sure which side you choose..
This...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Frankly, I don't know what that is.

This is going to be long and will no doubt upset some people. If you flame me, we will all know I am correct and you are not. If you ask me sensible questions, I will try my best to provide a honest and unbiased answer. Science and facts have no bias.

However, all interconnects are after market. Changing out a properly designed power cord is not worth the expense and hassle. Neither will it improve anything.

Let's get real here. You can not "improve" the sound that is on your recorded media.Sure, throwing an EQ into the system will change the sound, possibly in the direction you like. More bass, flatter mids..... I guess that is an improvement. hah!

A recording consists of audio to electrical transducer, connected to a mixer, often through many stages of sound modifying equipment interconnected with what are commonly called snakes. Mogami is often the snake of choice in a recording environment. They are really nothing special. The modified sound is then recorded on to some storage medium. The sound is now fixed.

At home you may play it back from analog storage medium, or digital. The former's quality will be determined by the mechanical to electrical transducer. That is an important part of the playback system. And vibration can have a negative impact on the transducer's capability to convert the mechanical energy to electrical energy.

If it is the latter, the approximated, sampled, sound is what you get. The laser reads pits in a plastic covered metal disk, often made of aluminum. Vibration or a special green magic maker on the edge of the disk will have NO effect. It's ones & zeros, period.

Whatever interconnects you use, unless they are pure *, will not make the sound any better. Plus, are you going to change the wiring in your tonearm, speakers and equipment? However, there is another transducer that will also have a major impact on the reproduced sound. That is your speakers, an electrical to mechanical transducer. We normally chose speakers that "talk" to us. Hopefully they will sound as good at home as in the store. Some choose speakers and other pieces of their equipment based on cost. The more it cost, the better it must be, right? Again, I'm not talking about * here. Those people tend to listen to and talk about their expensive equipment, not listen to the music.

Much of the popular music that is recorded today is very compressed so there is no dynamic range so it can easily be played loud. Why spend big bucks just to play it loud?

I did a double blind test for a stereo mag in the mid 1970's for some speaker cable that was just being introduced and was supposed to be the cat's meow. Everything was controlled with witnesses and all that stuff. The attendees listened and wrote their comments. Often they asked to have it changed back and forth.. All witnessed and at the end signed off by everyone. they all said they could discern the difference. I never changed the cables once, which was verified by the witnesses. The speakers were fed with #12 zipcord. The new "better" cable just laid there, never touched. You should have heard the howling.

That my friend, was the effect of psychoacoustics. And there are many many vendors out there using that to pry money from your wallet as I type.

I'm an engineer and I've been involved in the audio world for over 60 years. And yes, my hearing is becoming lossy. But I still enjoy my music, and playing live music.

IMHO, the important takeaway I want to finally present is that this is a hobby. Enjoy it. Spend as much or as little as you wish. Don't belittle someone else's system. You might learn something there. Remember the term, psychoacoustics. And to be cognizant that physics always wins, be sure which side you choose..
So, is your house so old that it actually still has fuses? A torus transformer is properly called a toroidal transformer, since you are an "Engineer" you should know that (look it up).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
I agree with the getting two dedicated lines from your breaker box, one for your stereo/ av gear preamp stuff and one for your power amps try Pangea 9se 7 gauge on your power amps cheap but quite good or try a heavy gauge 10 AWG Voodoo . Get all your computer gear off the dedicated lines use an isolated transformer with your switched mode stuff so the hash doesn't come back onto your a.c. lines. Where possible use linear power supplies on every bit of Computer equipment in your house. The noise floor will be beautifully low and your enjoyment will be improved.
My brother comes to my house and always says how do you get it so quiet, that is how my friend . Don't listen to those experts who wouldn't spend a penny because science says you can't hear it that's their loss.
Ok, if you are running a 20 amp circuit with 12 gauge wire, any larger wire in the circuit is a waste of time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Ok, if you are running a 20 amp circuit with 12 gauge wire, any larger wire in the circuit is a waste of time.
Not so much a waste of time as a waste of money. Don't forget though that with really long runs you are required to increase the Gauge. Anyway, a larger gauge of in wall Romex won't hurt anything, but there will be little if any difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
That tells me a lot. A PCB trace is a printed Circuit Board trace.
GEO,
I am glad that tells you a lot! Not all of us may have your vast wisdom, but at least we respect people and their comments without snide remarks. Keep the conversation open but think before you reply. Enough said.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
54 Posts
My $.02 for what it's worth (2 cents). I have been a home theater enthusiast for over 40 years. I started with a reel to reel tape recorder and Pioneer receiver with ADS speakers and really enjoyed the music and sound. Then for a time got caught up in the tweaking stage to try to make it sound better. My focus turned from enjoying the music and sound to listening for problems or anything that might be “wrong” either imagined or real. I would “A,B” different speaker wire, patch cables, surge protectors, etc. In the process, I no longer was enjoying the music because I was always listening for what was or could be wrong. I finally came to the conclusion that it doesn’t have to sound like I’m sitting in the studio watching the artist making the recording. The job of audio and video manufacturers and their retail outlets is to make you unhappy with your existing setup and it has worked on me but sometimes it good to just step back and enjoy what you have without trying to find fault with it. Remember, your glass is half full too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
My $.02 for what it's worth (2 cents). I have been a home theater enthusiast for over 40 years. I started with a reel to reel tape recorder and Pioneer receiver with ADS speakers and really enjoyed the music and sound. Then for a time got caught up in the tweaking stage to try to make it sound better. My focus turned from enjoying the music and sound to listening for problems or anything that might be “wrong” either imagined or real. I would “A,B” different speaker wire, patch cables, surge protectors, etc. In the process, I no longer was enjoying the music because I was always listening for what was or could be wrong. I finally came to the conclusion that it doesn’t have to sound like I’m sitting in the studio watching the artist making the recording. The job of audio and video manufacturers and their retail outlets is to make you unhappy with your existing setup and it has worked on me but sometimes it good to just step back and enjoy what you have without trying to find fault with it. Remember, your glass is half full too.
Were there any high definition, high fidelity integrated Home Theater Systems 40 years ago? I remember shopping in a variety of stereo stores way back then, but I do not recall seeing any large screen TVs or center channel and surround sound loudspeakers.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
54 Posts
OK, I said "home theater enthusiast" I should have said in the beginning, home stereo enthusiast. That doesn’t mean that when large screen TV's and surround sound became available 15 to 20 years later that I didn't make the jump to Home Theater which I did. They did have “Fresnel lenses” to put in front of your TV to make it look bigger and plans for a box to project your TV on the wall so maybe that could be classified as “large screen”. For what it's worth I am currently using a Denon AVR-X4400h, Epson 5030ub projector, Sharp 80" TV, Oppo blu-ray player, HT 3500 surge protector, Klipsh etc. So I do upgrade once in a while. While it's not McIntosh and Bowers & Wilkens, it still sounds pretty good to me. Anyway, you’re missing the point. What I AM saying is that when you are listening for what is wrong with your set up, you’re not enjoying the program material you purchased to listen to and or watch on your set up. In other words, if you’re always chasing the perfect sound or video reproduction, you’re not enjoying the program. Be my guest, spend all the money and time you want to achieve that extra 2% of clarity or definition someone else might be bragging about. All I am saying is until the next big meaningful leap in technology, I would rather sit back and enjoy the blu-ray, music, or streaming material that I purchased the equipment to hear and watch it with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
OK, I said "home theater enthusiast" I should have said in the beginning, home stereo enthusiast. That doesn’t mean that when large screen TV's and surround sound became available 15 to 20 years later that I didn't make the jump to Home Theater which I did. They did have “Fresnel lenses” to put in front of your TV to make it look bigger and plans for a box to project your TV on the wall so maybe that could be classified as “large screen”. For what it's worth I am currently using a Denon AVR-X4400h, Epson 5030ub projector, Sharp 80" TV, Oppo blu-ray player, HT 3500 surge protector, Klipsh etc. So I do upgrade once in a while. While it's not McIntosh and Bowers & Wilkens, it still sounds pretty good to me. Anyway, you’re missing the point. What I AM saying is that when you are listening for what is wrong with your set up, you’re not enjoying the program material you purchased to listen to and or watch on your set up. In other words, if you’re always chasing the perfect sound or video reproduction, you’re not enjoying the program. Be my guest, spend all the money and time you want to achieve that extra 2% of clarity or definition someone else might be bragging about. All I am saying is until the next big meaningful leap in technology, I would rather sit back and enjoy the blu-ray, music, or streaming material that I purchased the equipment to hear and watch it with.
No, I wasn't missing your point, I was just being flippant towards your comments. I've been an AUDIOPHILE since the mid '70s, though mostly unable to afford the equipment that I'd really like to own.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter #37
GEO,
I understand what you are saying and couldn't agree more. I purchased my system back in 1994 and turned away from chasing audio equipment and just enjoyed the music my system presented over the years. This is my first venture back into stereo equipment since my original purchase and at the same time I am trying to incorporate a home theater system. I am a glutton for punishment.

I have been asking questions is to see how the audio world has changed since the early 1990's. Fortunately, I am still very pleased with my 2 channel system and only recently did I incorporate a music server to get me out of the stone age.

Personally, twenty five years ago I could hear differences between interconnects and speaker cables, so my questions about Power Cords is justified. I can clearly understand why some people belief that a few feet of AC cable can not drastically change your sound, but at the same time I can understand arguments that you can get small to moderate improvements in the right system or to the right ears. This may simply be due to proper wire sizing of your PC, better terminations or just tone control, who knows. But each person has the right to evaluate if there exists a cost vs performance gain, if any and then determine if it justifies the cost to them.

Once I complete updating my system it will probably be, god willing, another 25 years before I upgrade again. The point is I am not chasing the holy grail, simply trying to upgrade my system and the first step towards that goal is asking question to update my knowledge so that I can make wise decisions without wasting my finances.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
Oh, BTW
The "that tells me a lot" comment.
"The only fool is the one that doesn't ask the question about something when he doesn't understand it."
Joe
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Oh, BTW
The "that tells me a lot" comment.
"The only fool is the one that doesn't ask the question about something when he doesn't understand it."
Joe
I've joined, supported the DIY community, in hopes of achieving my goal of owning better sounding equipment.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
54 Posts
No, I wasn't missing your point, I was just being flippant towards your comments. I've been an AUDIOPHILE since the mid '70s, though mostly unable to afford the equipment that I'd really like to own.
It's just a suggestion, not a mandate. I am the same as you, "mostly unable to afford the equipment that I'd really like to own". My first reel to reel was a Nerelco portable and I worked my way up to a used ReVox. What I have done is research equipment and specifacations then look on ebay, craigslist, and offer up for used equipment that came close to what I want at a price I can afford. I'm sure you have nice equipment that looks and sounds good. I hope you can enjoy it until your able to afford somthing better.
Regards,
 
21 - 40 of 44 Posts
Top