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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi there,

I live here in the UK and we have run 240v as you know. My EP4000 is connected to a 13amp plug so I have read an article saying that the maximum power you can run is:

So, the maximum power is 240x13 = 3,120 Watts.
I am running the EP4000 2ohms stereo into 2 subs and I tripped the fuse on the amp running a 15hz sinewave. This was not on full volume so what actually tripped the amp. Any advice would be appreciated. I ran my sinewaves as mpg files through VLC player from my laptop.

Based on my winisd plot I should only be at 10mm excursion at 15hz on full power of 1200 watts but the amplifier power load in winisd is showing 1000 watts of power drawn.

I would appreciate any advise as to what was or could be the cause.

Just had a thought and don't know if this makes any difference but I have a tacima 6 plug conditioner which I have my plasma, onkyo 876, blu ray player, bfd and sky HD into it. That is obviously plugged into one socket so if I running a sinewave very loud and have the volume on the onkyo say on -15db, that is drawing X current along with the EP4000 at the same time which is effectively from the same socket. Could this be overloading the socket with both the Onkyo and EP4000 running from the same socket.


cheers

Graham
 

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Movies/music are not constant amplitude and constant power draw like a sine wave. The crest factor or peak to average ratio of the signal can be quite high. The power amps also have the capacitive filtering to draw on as a reservoir to maintain power output for short periods.

Amplifiers are of course not 100% efficient, so if you will draw more current and power from the wall than you deliver to the load. AB amps are typically about 50%, so you're drawing double from the wall that's going to the load.

Breakers and fuses do not automatically trip at the rated current. Overload is permitted for a varying period depending upon the type of device and the value of the over current vs the duration of the over current.

Here is a typical breaker.


Look at the curved section at the top left. You can run at 100% indefinitely, but that reduces to 8-12x for 1 second. The vertical section in the centre is for large overloads such as shorts and doesn't apply here.

I would say don't worry at all unless it trips in use with program material as source. If it does then you may need to contact an electrician and get another circuit installed to your sub position with larger cable and appropriate breaker. The breaker is designed and selected to protect the conductor, not anything connected to an outlet, so do not just do a DIY replacement breaker or you run the risk of fire.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the reply. When running sinewaves would running off its own socket provide more security when running at high volumes than running multiple electrical devices off one socket.

Your right I don't get the probs when playing music or watching films, well atleast I have played at reference yet but on the sinewave the amp's clipping light did light up from memory then it tripped.

cheers

Graham
 

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Thanks for the reply. When running sinewaves would running off its own socket provide more security when running at high volumes than running multiple electrical devices off one socket.
You'll need a larger diameter submain from your switchboard to the outlet and an outlet and breaker of suitable rating to allow the amp to develop full power using sine waves, which is particularly taxing of everything.

Your right I don't get the probs when playing music or watching films, well atleast I have played at reference yet but on the sinewave the amp's clipping light did light up from memory then it tripped.

cheers

Graham
Well why change anything?
 

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Wait. Did it flip the breaker in your breaker panel, or was it the fuse/breaker in the amp itself? It seems like you might have been talking about the latter.

Your subs are 2ohms and how are they wired to the amp? That's a rough load for an amp. Most are not happy running full power sines into 2ohms or 4ohm bridged.

How do you know it wasn't full volume? Were the amp clipping indicators lit? Into that sort of load an EP4000/2500 should be able to pull off 1600-1800w or in that range.

As A9X mentioned your amp is not even 90% efficient. It's more likely to be 70% or maybe worse. You may have also expericenced significant voltage drop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
ricci

my subs are dual 1 ohm wired into 2ohms each. Yes it tripped the fuse in the amp and not the main fuse box. If that was full power then I would a more powerful amp to drive them as I never reached full excursion.

cheers Graham
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
the other thing is that I plotted 1200 watts per sub which is fine but if I am only getting 8-900 watts per side I am never going to be able to drive them fully. I would get another EP4000 but they are D1 drivers and cannot be wired into 4 ohms. How much would I have to spend to get a true 2 x 1200 watts into 2 ohms amp.

cheers graham
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ricci

my subs are dual 1 ohm wired into 2ohms each. Yes it tripped the fuse in the amp and not the main fuse box. If that was full power then I would a more powerful amp to drive them as I never reached full excursion.

cheers Graham
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Did you not model the response? I don't need to look at it to tell you that at tuning and above you'll need much more than 1 channel of an EP to overpower those subs. Your cabs are undersized (limiting excursion) and the subs have a lot of excursion headroom. 800-900w per drive is just not going to do it. You are amp limited. Many people would say that's a good thing. You'll need a much bigger single amp like a Marathon MA5050, QSC RMX5050, Crest CC5500, Crest CA18, etc...

If it's the fuse in the amp not the breaker then your AC line is most likely fine. To blow out the amps breaker you must have been driving it very hard as I've not heard of anyone else doing this except for during actual amp testing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ricci,

I modelled everything in winisd first. Here's my plot for you to see.

The fuse tripped playing the 15hz sinewave. To be honest I don't think I was driving them that hard. I feel a little down with regards to them being D1 drivers which now limits me on my options for the future. It would probably be cheaper to sell my drivers and replace them with two of the new Q18's as Dual 2 ohm, then atleast I would be able to just buy another EP4000 amp and drive them both 4 ohms bridged to get them more power. My FI dealer says I should be able to get £600 for my drivers so I wouldn't have to put much towards the new ones. I would love two maelstroms but they are out of my league money wise.

I am a complete bass head and want to get the best out of them in every way I can. I am limited to size hence these being the biggest I can go.

I am open to suggestions.

cheers

Graham
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I actually disagree as it produces sub 20hz material with no problems at all even 10hz is not an issue.

The old Q's granted do need a big big box in the real world but this still works fine. Here's my graph which is pretty good in my opinion. I have only run Audyssey with no BFD.

I am looking at other options at the moment to see what else is out there.

cheers

Graham
 

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