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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

Still farely new with HT but read lots of threads about wires, connections, wall plates etc... Just got a new house and my basement in not finished. I am about to start the work soon and was looking at buying a bunch of stuff from Monoprice. Since my basement is not finished, no gyps on the ceiling, I was thinking of having all the wires hidden.

Here is what i was looking at purchasing:

Wires:

Speaker wires going in wall:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2789&seq=1&format=2

HDMI to plug my projector to a HDMI wall plate:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024004&p_id=4963&seq=1&format=2

Plug my HDMI projector wall plate to the 7.1 HT wall plate in wall:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024012&p_id=4162&seq=1&format=2

Banaplugs:
To connect all my speakers to their wall plates as well as my 7.1 HT wall plate speaker section to my Onkyo 708 Receiver
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401&cs_id=1040115&p_id=2801&seq=1&format=2

Wall plates:

7.1 HT surround wall plate. Will have all my in wall wires connect to it as well as my HDMI project to it:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042503&p_id=6907&seq=1&format=2

Banana speaker wall plate. Will use this on all speakers + sub:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042503&p_id=3324&seq=1&format=2

HDMI wall plate for my Projector:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042501&p_id=2730&seq=1&format=2



What do you guys think ? Any feedbacks ? Anything wrong ? Anything I should add ?

Thanks for your help!
 

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It looks like you have got it all down pretty pat.:T If you need any help or suggestions once your on the road to wireing just fire away with questions.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hey Bambino,

Thanks for the reply. In my opinion, wiring should be pretty easy. If you have any suggestions, go ahead, maybe I am missing something...something that I should do ? For me, I just wire everything from the ceiling from all the wall plates to my main 7.1 HT wall plate. Put my gypse and thats all. Is that correct ?

Regards,
 

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I think you have it, one thing, be sure to lable your wires and you should good to go.
Oh and double check everything to make sure you have it where you want it.:T
 

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The speaker wire you posted is not rated for in-wall/ceiling usage and should not be used in such a manner. If there were a fire and they investigated the fire, your insurance company could technically deny any claim based off of that wire. This would be a better choice for using in the wall/ceiling.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2818&seq=1&format=2

Wall plates at the speaker locations are another story as you will have those areas usually visible versus the projector and equipment locations which will hide the wiring exit/entry.

While the speaker terminal plates may look pretty they are really just adding another point for failure, I tend to suggest pass thru plates like listed here. You could use the dual voltage plate to remotely power your projector from a surge protector as well.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042505
 

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The speaker wire you posted is not rated for in-wall/ceiling usage and should not be used in such a manner. If there were a fire and they investigated the fire, your insurance company could technically deny any claim based off of that wire. This would be a better choice for using in the wall/ceiling.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2818&seq=1&format=2

Wall plates at the speaker locations are another story as you will have those areas usually visible versus the projector and equipment locations which will hide the wiring exit/entry.

While the speaker terminal plates may look pretty they are really just adding another point for failure, I tend to suggest pass thru plates like listed here. You could use the dual voltage plate to remotely power your projector from a surge protector as well.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042505
Very true but due to the fact that it is a low voltage wire it is highly unlikely to even be considerd a source for a fire, thats why local code inspectors do not require permits for such runs or for them to be inspected. Correct me if i'm wrong. I suppose it varies from state to state.:dontknow:
 

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Inspection / Permits are entirely based off the local municipality, the problem is not the voltage running through the wire but whether the jacket can cause acceleration of fire, other wise there would never be a need for in-wall/ceiling wire or CL2/CL3 rating. Any wire that is to be used inside of the wall should be CL2 or CL3 rated.
 

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Think of what just happened to your speakers bambino, speaker wire can easily heat up and the jacket could become the source of the fire.
 

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Inspection / Permits are entirely based off the local municipality, the problem is not the voltage running through the wire but whether the jacket can cause acceleration of fire, other wise there would never be a need for in-wall/ceiling wire or CL2/CL3 rating. Any wire that is to be used inside of the wall should be CL2 or CL3 rated.
I will not argue the point of it being up to the different municipality's. But what happend to my speakers had to do with what was going on inside of the driver itself not the wire feeding it. It would take massive amounts of power to heat up standard speaker cable (even 22awg).
You are right that the wire should be in-wall rated but if it's not i wouldn't worry for the points i listed above.:T

It may be wise for the OP to check with local codes.
 

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I didn't say your speaker failure was due to the wire you were using, you can argue whatever point you want but the simple fact of the matter is there are CL2/CL3 rated wires for a reason. The OP may not have to have the low voltage wires inspected but I wouldn't risk my company or the well being of my family by not using CL2/CL3 rated wires.
 

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Was just quoting your words from the post before mine in regards to argue, not that I was personally arguing with you. I am just trying to bestow some of my knowledge from being an installer, programmer, calibrator and even business owner in the custom install industry. I have seen an insurance company deny a claim due to improper speaker wire being used as well as have seen demonstrations of 12, 14, and 16 AWG wire being heated to the point of the jacket smoking and then bursting into flame.s
 

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Good to have knowledge and experiance with your type of work. But another point i would like to throw out there is from your demonstration that you saw, that would have had to be a serious short circuit for the jacket to melt and catch fire which would leave me at the opinion that there was no sort of circuit protection involved. Correct? If you have that much of a short even cl2/3 protection won't help.
 

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It’s not an issue of the speaker wire heating up and causing a fire. That’s not going to happen. The issue is what would happen to the wiring in the event of a fire – any fire, for whatever the cause. I’ve heard that the clear-insulator wiring can “wick” (burn fast) and help the fire spread to a new location. And IIR their may be an issue with toxic fumes with that insulation when it burns.

It’s never a bad idea to use the correct wire for the application. As a benefit, the CL-2 wiring doesn’t cost any more than the other stuff. Win, win!

Regards,
Wayne
 

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Discussion Starter #15
hi everyone,

thanks for the feedbacks. I will certainly use the inwall speaker, did not see that one.

Any huge differences, noticable differences between the 12 - 14 - 16 AWG ?

THanks!
 

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It’s not an issue of the speaker wire heating up and causing a fire. That’s not going to happen. The issue is what would happen to the wiring in the event of a fire – any fire, for whatever the cause. I’ve heard that the clear-insulator wiring can “wick” (burn fast) and help the fire spread to a new location. And IIR their may be an issue with toxic fumes with that insulation when it burns.

It’s never a bad idea to use the correct wire for the application. As a benefit, the CL-2 wiring doesn’t cost any more than the other stuff. Win, win!

Regards,
Wayne

That's correct, thank you for articulating what I couldn't last night. It is entirely about what could happen in the event of fire, not that it will be starting point of a fire.

Bambino, it was a demonstration to show the difference of what happens to wire when part of fire. It was a controlled demonstration to show how the jackets effect the way fire can spread. It wasn't part of a system and didn't cause any issue as it was entirely controlled.
 

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Think of what just happened to your speakers bambino, speaker wire can easily heat up and the jacket could become the source of the fire.
While this is extremely unlikely, I have seen one case myself where speaker wires were melted and and one point charred by heat from a short that caused an output failure that dumped the power supply rail to the speakers. Most voice coils would act as a fuse but this one melted into a blob and the amp was fused such that it did not open either. I think it was an old Crown driving a fairly hefty woofer.

I have also seen problems in devices cause enough current to flow in signal wires that you could not touch them they were so hot. And touching the chassis ruined my day...

The NEC, articles 640 and 820 deal with ratings on cables. A good summary is here:
http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/understanding-in-wall-speaker-video-and-audio-cable-ratings

While local jurisdictions vary in how they enforce codes, nearly all in the US adhere to the basic NEC. As pointed out, the larger practical problem, even if harm is unlikely, may be that insurance adjusters may use a code violation as leverage. I have heard of specific cases where this has happened and a violation unrelated to an event was used to leverage a lower payout. A denied claim due to an unrelated violation would never be upheld in a court fight, but insurance companies know that most people are not going to be up for that kind of legal fight when their house burns down.

The fact is that it really does not cost much more to follow code. The real cost is taking the time to educate yourself on the matter and find the right products at a reasonable price.

There is another consideration with wire size. We have a joke in the service business that when an amp comes in with blown outputs we should kneel and thank Noel Lee of MC infamy. Anyone in the business very long has seen many installations with wire that did not fit the connectors result in protect modes or amp failure because of shorts. Make sure your wires fit your connectors on both ends.

As a public forum, it is the policy of Home Theater Shack to only promote safe installation using the proper materials and practices, installed according to any codes valid for your jurisdiction, under the proper permits. Doing a job the right way, even when it is unlikely to matter in the large majority of cases, has its own benefits. The self-satisfaction, the reduced risk of unforeseen problems such as noise and ground loops, the security of knowing that you won't have problems, the effects on resale of a well done install, and others make it seem foolish to cut corners on installations.
 

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Also, the issue with toxic fumes is the reason for "plenum" rated cables. Note the P at the end of those ratings. This is not usually an issue in most homes, unless there is an unusual installation need in a retrofit installation.
 
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