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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

I have a quick question for Panny Plasma owners, concerning the 4:3 mode of the 65V10. Is its only function to mask out the sides (and not to display a 4:3 signal in the correct AR)? I noticed that, on 4:3 content, the piller box was just super-imposed on top of a stretched-out picture (as opposed to emulating a 4:3 picture). This is fine with BD, as my player (Pioneer BDP-05FD) can compensate by compressing the 4:3 content to it's correct AR. But for a source that sends the raw 4:3 signal (like LaserDisc), the V10 will display it stretched out. Is there any way to tell the V10 to compress the incoming 4:3 signal to the proper AR (even my 7 year-old Mits RPTV could do that)? Thanx!
 

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Ideally you wouldn't need the tv to "compress" the 4:3... it would receive a proper 4:3 signal, and not mess with it except to add the bars...
Are you saying the Laserdisc stretches 4:3 to 16:9?
At any rate, play with the size/AR/mode settings on the TV. But you'll have better luck if you can get the Laserdisc to send a proper 4:3 image.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi Greg,

Well, I'm confused (again). The Panny does indeed compress the 4:3 signal from both my LD player and SD DVD players correctly. When I use my BD player to send the same signal, it is stretched out, and the TV simply superimposes the pillar boxing over the sides. There may be something with how the BD player is sending 4:3 stuff out, as it has two settings: 1) "Normal" if the TV can't accommodate a 4:3 signal, so it compresses the video to the proper AR and pillar boxes it on the player side, and 2) "Full", which spreads the 4:3 picture over the entire screen, so the TV can compress and pillar box it on the TV side. "Normal" works fine, but the TV does not pillar box the "Full" picture correctly (again, only from the BD player...?!?). In any case, I can always just use "Normal" for 4:3 DVDs (or my SD DVD player). Just kinda annoying... Thanks for the response!
 

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I'm not following 100% what you're trying to say, but it sounds to me like your Blu-Ray player is set to upscale 480i or 480p to 1080p... but in the process distorts the aspect ratio.

I don't really know how to help you, since I use my PS3's upscaling for DVDs and it doesn't give me these problems.

In my case at least, the only time my Panasonic plasma adds black bars overtop the signal is if the signal is already 1080p and filling the screen, but I have the TV aspect ratio set to "Normal" instead of "Full"

The only advice I can give you is

1) Use the info (?) button on your remote to find out if the signal the TV is receiving is 1080p or 480i etc.
2) Play around in the Blu Ray player's upscaling settings to preserve AR.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm not following 100% what you're trying to say, but it sounds to me like your Blu-Ray player is set to upscale 480i or 480p to 1080p... but in the process distorts the aspect ratio.
Yea, that's kinda what it looks like. I am just confused as to why the 4:3 mode on the TV will correctly compress a 16:9 stretched-out 4:3 picture when it is coming from the LD or SD-DVD players, but will not when the same (?) stretched-out 4:3 signal is originating from the BD player...?!? Fortunately, I can set the BD player to perform the compression before sending, so everything is displayed correctly. I was just kinda surprised that the mighty Panny 65V10 could not do something that my Mitsu WS65511 RPTV did just fine...
 

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Hi Greg,

Well, I'm confused (again). The Panny does indeed compress the 4:3 signal from both my LD player and SD DVD players correctly. When I use my BD player to send the same signal, it is stretched out, and the TV simply superimposes the pillar boxing over the sides. There may be something with how the BD player is sending 4:3 stuff out, as it has two settings: 1) "Normal" if the TV can't accommodate a 4:3 signal, so it compresses the video to the proper AR and pillar boxes it on the player side, and 2) "Full", which spreads the 4:3 picture over the entire screen, so the TV can compress and pillar box it on the TV side. "Normal" works fine, but the TV does not pillar box the "Full" picture correctly (again, only from the BD player...?!?). In any case, I can always just use "Normal" for 4:3 DVDs (or my SD DVD player). Just kinda annoying... Thanks for the response!
Yes, I believe you are confused, a little...
It sounds to me like Normal is the mode you want to use the player in. If it pillarboxes the 4:3 signal, it's not compressing it. If it's pillarboxing it, the TV should be able to see it as a 16:9 picture, pillarboxes and all.

It sound like Full mode on the player makes it stretch the 3:4 pic to 16:9, so the TV sees it as 16:9 and has no way of knowing that you expect it to compress that back down to 4:3 and pillarbox it.

The question is: Why would you want to stretch the image in the player only to have it compressed in the TV? It sounds like Normal mode does less image processing all around, which should lead to a better image.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Yes, I believe you are confused, a little...
It sounds to me like Normal is the mode you want to use the player in. If it pillarboxes the 4:3 signal, it's not compressing it. If it's pillarboxing it, the TV should be able to see it as a 16:9 picture, pillarboxes and all.
That is correct. I am using "Normal Mode" for exactly that reason.

It sound like Full mode on the player makes it stretch the 3:4 pic to 16:9, so the TV sees it as 16:9 and has no way of knowing that you expect it to compress that back down to 4:3 and pillarbox it.
That's the thing. This particular TV only has this "problem" when the 4:3 signal is coming from the BD player when set to "Full". My SD DVD player is also set to 16:9, and hence sends out a stretched 4:3 signal. When set to standard (4:3) mode, the TV correctly compresses this between the pillar boxes. So, both the BD player and the SD DVD player are sending the same signal (excepting that one is 480p, and the other is 1080p), which the TV has to assume is 16:9 (and, hence, will stretch a 4:3 picture out), and this is exactly what happens:



However, if the TV is switched to 4:3, only the SD picture is correctly compressed, while the HD picture remains stretched with the pillar boxes cutting off the sides:



The question is: Why would you want to stretch the image in the player only to have it compressed in the TV? It sounds like Normal mode does less image processing all around, which should lead to a better image.
I'm just confused as to why the Panasonic is not smart enough to compress the up-converted signal from the BD player when it is told to (ie. 4:3 mode selected), and only from the BD player. I guess my point of confusion is, what is the difference? Both signals, aside from resolution, are assumed to be 16:9 by the TV, and yet only the SD signal is correctly pillarboxed.

EDIT: The only difference between the Panny and the Mitsu that it replaced is that the Mitsu was working with a 1080i signal, and the Panny a 1080p signal. Not sure why that would make a difference?

EDIT#2: The more I think about it, the BD --> Panny is HDMI, whereas the SD DVD --> Panny is via component. The Mitsu got both of the 1080i and 480p signals via component. Could the TV be differentiating between digital and analog video inputs?
 

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That is correct. I am using "Normal Mode" for exactly that reason.



That's the thing. This particular TV only has this "problem" when the 4:3 signal is coming from the BD player when set to "Full". My SD DVD player is also set to 16:9, and hence sends out a stretched 4:3 signal. When set to standard (4:3) mode, the TV correctly compresses this between the pillar boxes. So, both the BD player and the SD DVD player are sending the same signal (excepting that one is 480p, and the other is 1080p), which the TV has to assume is 16:9 (and, hence, will stretch a 4:3 picture out), and this is exactly what happens:



However, if the TV is switched to 4:3, only the SD picture is correctly compressed, while the HD picture remains stretched with the pillar boxes cutting off the sides:





I'm just confused as to why the Panasonic is not smart enough to compress the up-converted signal from the BD player when it is told to (ie. 4:3 mode selected), and only from the BD player. I guess my point of confusion is, what is the difference? Both signals, aside from resolution, are assumed to be 16:9 by the TV, and yet only the SD signal is correctly pillarboxed.

EDIT: The only difference between the Panny and the Mitsu that it replaced is that the Mitsu was working with a 1080i signal, and the Panny a 1080p signal. Not sure why that would make a difference?

EDIT#2: The more I think about it, the BD --> Panny is HDMI, whereas the SD DVD --> Panny is via component. The Mitsu got both of the 1080i and 480p signals via component. Could the TV be differentiating between digital and analog video inputs?
Your TV is getting a stretched signal. Your blu ray player is sending a full screen image. Even where there are supposed to be nothing, it's sending something. All your TV is doing is showing you what it's being sent. It's not stretching-and-then-cutting, it's cutting when you set it to cut the sides off. The blu ray player is doing the stretching. Fix the aspect ratio and upscaling setting on your DVD player.

What you're calling a 4:3 signal from the BD player is actually a 4:3 signal already converted into a 16:9 signal.

In essense, the image you're thinking has been stretched by the TV in full mode is not being stretched by the TV - it's pixel-to-pixel what the blu ray player is sending. When you set it to "Normal" the blu ray is still sending a wide image.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks, all!

I found the answer. When switching the input from HDMI to component, and piping the 4:3 signal from the BD player in that way, the TV behaved the way I would expect. Since I did not change any other settings (just the signal transmission method), I have to conclude that there is something different in how the Panny treats a digital signal as opposed to an analog one. In any case, I just set the Panny to "Normal" and all is good. :)
 
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