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You should be wary of applying filters at the top end of the frequency range if you have not had your mic calibrated, the cal file we have for download may not be (likely will not be) an accurate match for your particular mic at the top end.
 

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Discussion Starter #162
Here is an update on my highs. I have applied four filters and one high pass filter.

1. 325Hz +6.0 Gain 5.0Q
2. 1.2kHz -3.0 Gain 5.0Q
3. 2.6kHz +6.0 Gain 3.0Q
4. 17.5kHz -6.0 Gain .8Q
5. HP 80Hz

First graph compares highs without filters (purple) to filtered highs (blue/green). The second is the new highs with a target of 73Hz. Playing a pink noise with REW from 200Hz to 20,000Hz, I turned on each filter separately to listen for a difference. The only one I question is filter #2. The third graph shows the response with turning the second filter off. It looks like I have a major problem with 330Hz. I don't think I will be able to fix it with any eq'ing.
 

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Discussion Starter #163
Swapped out filter #2 for a boost at 850Hz. I was able to hear a difference when playing pink noise again.

2. 850Hz +4.0 Gain 5.0Q

:nerd:
 

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Discussion Starter #164
Well, I proceeded to move onto making a full range plot. First thing I noticed was that my subs were running way too hot. I decided to check their settings two different ways. The first check was using the receiver's pink noise to verify that all 5 highs were reaching about 75dB. Then the subs were measured and showed to be only running 4-5dB hot compared to the mains. The second check was performed using REW. I used the REW speaker cal signal to verify the mains were at 75dB. I then used the REW subwoofer cal signal. That's when I saw the subs running +12dB hot! :yikes: I redid the REW subwoofer cal signal using just the MBM and verified it was 74-75dB. I then did the REW sub signal on just the main sub with the MBM off and the sub xo bypassed. It was running about 85dB.! :no: I readjusted the main sub down to below 80dB.

Now basically starting over, I redid my REW plots for just the subs (see graph #1) and verified my previous filters and made any adjustments. With the new filters plugged into the BFD, I was able to get the subs back under control (see graph #2).

I thought I was ready to plot a full range graph again. So I turned everything on and calibrated using REW's speaker cal signal to about 73dB. I verified my levels and plotted a full range graph from 15-20kHz (see graph #3). Now another major dip appeared at the 200Hz mark. Being frustrated at this point, I plugged another filter in the mains eq at 195Hz with a +6.0 gain and 8.5Q. Well the result looks a little better (see graph #4), but the subs still look like they are maybe too hot still. I decided to stop and actually take a listen. I played a couple of different cd's (Eagles, jazz, Floyd) and watched the pod scene from War of the Worlds. The bass is way lower. It sounds good, but just not as much "kick". :hsd: Maybe I just need to give it time to sink in as this is how it should sound.

My overall feel for today.....:dizzy::surrender::wits-end:
 

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The bass is way lower. It sounds good, but just not as much "kick". :hsd: Maybe I just need to give it time to sink in as this is how it should sound.
weverb, I fight this all the time. After about 2-3 weeks, I want to try and tweak it again.:bigsmile:


My overall feel for today.....:dizzy::surrender::wits-end:
Never Surrender!
 

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Discussion Starter #166
Never Surrender!
Thanks for the encouragement Larry. You are the reason I am in this situation you know! :gah:

I am just....:rofl: with yea.
 

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Discussion Starter #168
Just for that.... I am going to tell your wife you need an external amp, eq, 802 mixer, ECM8000 mic, and a whole bunch of cables! :demon:
 

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Discussion Starter #170
:rofl: :spend: :rofl2:
 

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You should be wary of applying filters at the top end of the frequency range if you have not had your mic calibrated, the cal file we have for download may not be (likely will not be) an accurate match for your particular mic at the top end.
Thanks for clarifying that, John. I was having a hard time swallowing such a severe rise up that high!

Regards,
Wayne
 

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I verified my levels and plotted a full range graph from 15-20kHz (see graph #3). Now another major dip appeared at the 200Hz mark. Being frustrated at this point, I plugged another filter in the mains eq at 195Hz with a +6.0 gain and 8.5Q.
That’s a pretty narrow filter. Make sure it’s giving an audible improvement (both with the pink noise test and with program material) before you commit to it. Often ultra-narrow depressions aren’t terribly audible.

Well the result looks a little better (see graph #4), but the subs still look like they are maybe too hot still.
I’d agree.

It sounds good, but just not as much "kick". Maybe I just need to give it time to sink in as this is how it should sound.
Have you tried the regular (non-hard-knee) house curve yet? You might like it better. Also, I presume you’ve followed the directions in the house curve article on how to determine the amount of slope you need?

Regards,
Wayne
 

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Discussion Starter #173
That’s a pretty narrow filter. Make sure it’s giving an audible improvement (both with the pink noise test and with program material) before you commit to it. Often ultra-narrow depressions aren’t terribly audible.

Have you tried the regular (non-hard-knee) house curve yet? You might like it better. Also, I presume you’ve followed the directions in the house curve article on how to determine the amount of slope you need?
Now that I have had time to cool off a bit. I went back and did the pink noise test for my 195Hz filter and could not hear a difference. So I will be removing that one. Any other/more suggestions for the 330Hz dip?

I also went back and set-up a regular house curve on a different memory setting. This way I can try both. In addition, I revisited the house curve technique. I played a 150Hz sine wave (pretty loud) and then played a 30Hz sine wave. I did see a 11-12dB difference on the RS meter to get them to sound at the same level. I also played a 80Hz sine wave compared to a 40Hz sine wave. Once again there was about a 6dB difference to get them to sound the same in volume.

What does that all mean.....looks like my lows might not be off that much. I think I have reached a point now where I just need to sit and listen to a bunch of different material and start judging with my ears.
 

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I think I have reached a point now where I just need to sit and listen to a bunch of different material and start judging with my ears.

Hello weverb, I have reach this point several times in the last five months and I agree with your advice.:bigsmile:
 

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Discussion Starter #175
What's the story/difference of this ECM8000 cal file (the first one) versus the one on the download page (the second one)? I found it in one of brucek's postings. There looks to be a very big difference in the upper Hz. :huh:
 

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Use the newecm file on the download site. It is the one professionally calibrated and certified by West Caldwell Calibration Laboratories. The other is an old one we used before the professional calibration was carried out.

brucek
 

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Discussion Starter #177
Thanks brucek. I am just wondering what could be causing my top end of the graphs to go up so much. Nothing sounds overly bright to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #178
Well , I have started to work on my center channel now. I am using a YDP2006 to eq it and the mains. Here are some graphs for your review....:nerd:

1. Center with no filters.
2. Center with filters.
3. Center compared to mains.
 

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You've certainly got the right idea. :T

The graphs for both mains and center show an overall sag in response between about 2 kHz and 10 kHz. It would probably make a noticible improvement in SQ to shore that area up a bit with a broad filter.

Looking at your center baseline graph, it looks like the Target Curve should have been lowered to maybe 72-73 dB before you started equalizing. That way less severe filters could be used.

Regards,
Wayne
 

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Discussion Starter #180
You've certainly got the right idea. :T

The graphs for both mains and center show an overall sag in response between about 2 kHz and 10 kHz. It would probably make a noticible improvement in SQ to shore that area up a bit with a broad filter.

Looking at your center baseline graph, it looks like the Target Curve should have been lowered to maybe 72-73 dB before you started equalizing. That way less severe filters could be used.

Regards,
Wayne
Thanks Wayne, none of the filters were more than +/-6.0dB. I try and take your guidelines to heart when eq'ing. There are only four filters being applied to the center. The first being a high pass filter (obviously), the second is a shelving filter to help with that 200-500Hz. area. The last two are a boost at about 3.0kHz. and a small cut of the very high end to get it to match the mains. I must say, so far the center has been easier than the subs. :bigsmile:
 
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