Home Theater Forum and Systems banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

About a year ago I was here looking into some fixed frame screens. Money got tight and I was unable to afford to do anything right away, but now I am ready.

I have mounted a 54 inch TV in the wall. The TV is more or less flush in the wall but I have the current screen about 2 inches from the wall.

I have the Epson 8500UB projector and currently have a pull down Grey Wolf II 106" (Costco screen.) The room does have small light bleeding into the room even at night. (The side walls, equipment in the room, The kitchen enters into my theater room and 99.9% of the time the light is off you can get some light into the den)

The projector is nearly dead center of the screen 20' away

That said I was looking into a tab-tensioned electric screen. I would like a 110" screen. Probably thinking a greyish screen is best

Not sure what brands to give a try. I have samples of the Da-lite (HCCV, CV) Da-lite rep was recommending the HCCV to me)

Stewart is just out of my price range so while I have samples of it, I'm not taking it into consideration.

Any recommendations of other brands that I should be looking into to compare? Do I need something with higher contrast. So many questions just don't know where to start. :)
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Hi wiggum, welcome back! :wave:

One of the problems you are facing is that your current screen is retroreflective (1.8 peak gain) so you are used to a brighter image than you can get with any similar shade of non-retroreflective gray screen except for the special-purpose uber-expensive screens like the Black Diamond II and SuperNova.

With the retroreflective Gray Wolf II you had to mount the PJ as close to the viewers line-of-sight as reasonably possible. Is there any way you could remount the PJ for use with the new screen? That 20 foot throw range is killing your image brightness (you're only getting 10 fL or less) which negates all but the lightest of regular gray screens. If you could mount that 8500 to get a 10' 9" throw distance you would more than double your image brightness (22 fL).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The problem I have is I have a Cathedral ceiling in the room and two ceiling fans. Would be nearly impossible for me to move it closer. I have it on the back wall in the room now.

I would think that with the ceiling fans in the room the projector hanging between them would sway some when they are on?

If I stayed with something like 106 would that help with the brightness then?

Not sure what other options I have.
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
The problem I have is I have a Cathedral ceiling in the room and two ceiling fans. Would be nearly impossible for me to move it closer. I have it on the back wall in the room now.

I would think that with the ceiling fans in the room the projector hanging between them would sway some when they are on?
There are ways to isolate vibration to the PJ, but in your situation I would always be concerned about one of the fan blades coming off and smacking the PJ. :yikes:

Would it be possible to do a bit of room rearrangement and table-mount the PJ? Just thinking out loud here...

If I stayed with something like 106 would that help with the brightness then?

Not sure what other options I have.
Nope, cutting screen size by 4 inches won't make much of a difference. Perhaps Mech (or anyone else for that matter) knows of a tab-tensioned retroreflective gray screen. :dontknow:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I doubt the blade would ever come off the ceiling fan. Have never had that happen before. I never keep them on fast either. Usually first and second settings.

Just wondering. How accurate are the projector calcs? I was looking at the calc and for 20' distance of the 8500ub with a larger screen it showed a FL of 16. Would that be on the brightest settings or something?
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
I doubt the blade would ever come off the ceiling fan. Have never had that happen before. I never keep them on fast either. Usually first and second settings.
Yeah, I've never even had a ceiling fan blade even come close to getting loose let alone fly off. I would still be thinking about it though. :R

Just wondering. How accurate are the projector calcs? I was looking at the calc and for 20' distance of the 8500ub with a larger screen it showed a FL of 16. Would that be on the brightest settings or something?
My sincerest apologies, I was using the wrong PJ specs! The Epson HD 8500 and not the 8500UB. :doh: The odd thing is that they are both rated as being 1600 lumen PJ's (this is why you can't go by rated lumens alone).

With a 20 foot throw I'm now getting 21 fL with a 106" screen and gain of 1.0. Going up to 110" gives 20 fL which would not be a visible difference.

The point I was trying to make before about the brightness of the retroreflective screen can be seen if you increase the screen gain in the calculator to 1.8 which gives 37 fL with a 106" screen and 35 fL with a 110". I'm not sure what modes the PJ is in for these calculations. From the projectorcentral review of the 8500UB their unit measured 1835 lumens in Dynamic mode, lamp on full and widest zoom (all giving the brightest image available with the PJ). Living Room mode gave 1602 lumens. THX mode 637 lumens, Theater 638 lumens, Theater Black 1 574 lumens, Theater Black 2 (which defaults to low lamp and 5500K color temp) is 424 lumens, and x.v. color is 471 lumens. Using Eco mode for the lamp dropped brightness by 21%. Using the zoom in the middle of it's range dropped brightness 18% and using full telephoto (where you almost are) dropped it 36%.

To manually calculate your screen brightness find the screens size in square feet by multiplying it's width in inches by it's length in inches and dividing that number by 144 to convert the result to square feet. a 106" screen would be 52" x 92" equaling 4784 square inches. Divide that by 144 giving 33.2222 square feet.

Next take the lumens illuminating the screen and divide them by the screens area in square feet to get foot lamberts. For example in Theater mode divide 638 lumens by 33.2222 square feet giving 19.2 fL. To allow for using Eco lamp mode take 18% off that value giving 15.75 fL. To allow for zoom (a rough estimate) decrease that value by another 36% (or whatever your guesstimate would be) giving 10.1 fL.

To allow for gain differences take the fL value for a 1.0 screen found with the above and multiply it by the gain of the screen being used. In your case it would be 10.1 x 1.8 giving 18.2 fL (rounding off).

This should give you lots of data to experiment with potential new screens and to give you a better understanding of what actual image brightness you may be getting with your current screen.

Oh yeah, always be sure to double-check my math since I just proved I'm not perfect. :whistling: ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yes, Thank you so much. It gives me so much to go on. I'm now debating moving it between the fans LOL. If I cut the distance to 10-11 ft I would gain more brightness and I could also probably cut my HDMI cable length down a lot as well. I really have to think about it more. Would have to run power or I can just track a long power card down the wall.

I don't keep my projector in Eco mode. I have had the projector since it's release and it has about 500 hours (Maybe less.) I realize at half it's life I do lose brightness.

If sticking with Da-lite than I should be looking maybe at the CV instead of the HCCV to get the tad more gain I assume.

What other brands should I be looking at also?
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Yes, Thank you so much. It gives me so much to go on. I'm now debating moving it between the fans LOL. If I cut the distance to 10-11 ft I would gain more brightness and I could also probably cut my HDMI cable length down a lot as well. I really have to think about it more. Would have to run power or I can just track a long power card down the wall.
PJ mounting (other than throw distance) isn't important when dealing with a regular specular (AKA Angular) reflective screen, but it can matter greatly with a screen that has the equivalent of glass lenses built into it (retroreflective screens and screens like the BDII and SuperNova). Also, you can actually have a screen image be too bright which is hard on the eyes.

I don't keep my projector in Eco mode. I have had the projector since it's release and it has about 500 hours (Maybe less.) I realize at half it's life I do lose brightness.
You start to lose lumens from the beginning and what I have read is that most of a lamps brightness is lost in the first 50% of use, the lose isn't linear either, but is greater in the early hours of life.

If sticking with Da-lite than I should be looking maybe at the CV instead of the HCCV to get the tad more gain I assume.

What other brands should I be looking at also?
If you haven't already, take a look at the reviews Mech has done of many of the Da-Lite screen materials as well as others. See the Sticky Screen Forum Index at the top of this forum, under the sub-heading "Commercial Screen threads".

Hopefully Mech will jump in here with some recommendations for you. :T
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,914 Posts
I think that sticking with the HCCV would probably be best as you do have ambient light to deal with. Normally I'd recommend finding an Elite with Cinegrey material but I think it will be similar in price to the Da-Lite.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I think the Da-lite motorized is nearly double the Elite price for a motorized?

Do you all think that the HCCV or the Elite Cinegrey would be good if I did decide to ceiling mount the projector?

What is the best way to isolate the vibration if I did decide to go that route?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,914 Posts
I think the Da-lite motorized is nearly double the Elite price for a motorized?
In that case, go with the Elite. It sounds like you have more than enough lumens.

Do you all think that the HCCV or the Elite Cinegrey would be good if I did decide to ceiling mount the projector?
Yes.

What is the best way to isolate the vibration if I did decide to go that route?
If the fans are properly balanced, there shouldn't be a vibration problem. If there is find out which fan it is and balance it. Here's a link explaining how to do that. Outside of that you could use some sort of neoprene grommet/washer/membrane between the mount and the ceiling. :scratch:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sorry, it took me so long to get back. Been really busy with work. I am going to go with the Da-lite. The Elite only comes in 106 and I really wanted the 110 this time around. Not much of a difference but I have had the 106 for years.

Has anyone heard of Salestores.com? They have a great price on the 110 HCCV (Dalite 94204) but just seems like it is too good to be true and it always makes me sketchy.


The ceiling fans don't move at all. I was more concerned of any air movements causing the projector to sway, but I guess I could support it more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I called Da-lite and they said they are an authorized company so we will see. I can give them a try. Da-lite said they have no complaints against them and it ships directly from Da-lite.

Will give a heads up. It is worth a shot I guess.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,914 Posts
I called Da-lite and they said they are an authorized company so we will see. I can give them a try. Da-lite said they have no complaints against them and it ships directly from Da-lite.

Will give a heads up. It is worth a shot I guess.
Keep us informed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I ordered it but got the cancel letter. We regret to inform you that nor we nor our suppliers have stock of the product(s) you ordered. They did not say it(they) was(were) discontinued, but could not give us an ETA on this(these) unit(s).

Funny thing is I called Da-lite concerning this company just before I placed the order and Da-lite said that once ordered it would go out in 3-5 days.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
The ceiling fans don't move at all. I was more concerned of any air movements causing the projector to sway, but I guess I could support it more.
I think it would take a pretty substantial amount of air movement around the PJ to cause it to move. I would be more concerned with increased dust buildup from low pressure areas and making sure its accessible enough to keep the vents clean and clear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well I ordered the screen. The place I ended up ordering it from had 10% off and free shipping. Still worked out to be a great price after my rebates, cash back, etc

I would like to add a screen trigger to the projector. Am I limited to a Da-lite screen trigger only? If not what other options? Would love a wireless type.

I have not decided yet on moving the projector closer. Although I may at some point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Got my screen yesterday. Arrived really quick. Shipped straight from Da-lite. I am in the process of completing some work on the wall for the Plasma TV behind the screen. I am so anxious to get this screen up :)
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top