You are absolutely correct about that! For some reason I was thinking about one of the lighter experimental versions of C&S™. Sorry about that. :blush:Since it's 1:1, wouldn't it only be 32 oz before water?
To say that we are not impressed with the performance of RSMM and SF is an understatement. The same is said by quite a few other folks as well, but whenever anyone "makes waves" about it at AVS their posts (and even whole threads) mysteriously disappear.Also, I keep forgetting to ask: I know you're not impressed with the performance of RS-MaxxMudd over here, but I don't know if you have any experience with the more recent formulas. The RS-MaxxMudd-LL is one I'm considering trying, it's a different formula from the one you tried in your original C&S thread:
20 oz. Rustoleum Metallic Accents - White Pearl
10 oz. Liquitex Basics Silver
12 oz. Behr 1850 Ultra Pure White - Flat
12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
20 oz. distilled/tap water**
While it may appear that way, Roland (MM) is trolling for customers in the diy screen forum. We've had a lot of people come here after having him paint a screen for them only to find out that he's not all he thinks he is.Interesting all around. I have to admit it seems weird to me that anyone would ever have a problem with anyone testing stuff, especially when no one on either side is trying to sell anything. Not sure what the motivation is.
Anyway, thanks in advance for whatever testing you're willing to do to help me out. It's greatly appreciated.
Both MM and PB charge money to build projection screens for people, MM makes his living doing it. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, but it does explain why they promote and defend their screen mixes so hard, and why you can find precious few posts complaining about their mixes in the AVS DIY Screen forum; that forum is basically their advertising brochure.Interesting all around. I have to admit it seems weird to me that anyone would ever have a problem with anyone testing stuff, especially when no one on either side is trying to sell anything. Not sure what the motivation is.
No problem! :TAnyway, thanks in advance for whatever testing you're willing to do to help me out. It's greatly appreciated.
Behr #1850 FLAT finish shouldn't hot spot at all! Please post some photos of this if you would. I just read your thread about this at AVS and looked at the link to the paint you are using. This is a new paint from Behr and if you read the reviews on Home Depot people are hating it! I see two potential reasons for your 1850 screen hot spotting, either the reformulated paint has much more gloss than it should or an error was made at the factory and the paint inside your can isn't really flat finish, but one of a higher gloss (a labeling error). Either way, until we get to the bottom of why your Behr #1850 is hot spotting we are going to have to pull our recommendation for it's use as a screen paint or using it to make a screen mix!Sprayed on a bunch of coats of Behr UPW 1850 in preparation for RS-MM-LL. Checked out the UPW screen and it's definitely noticeably brighter, unsurprisingly, and blacks are lighter. Two problems: 1) Hotspotting, which I didn't think UPW flat was susceptible to; and 2) the projected image is visibly quite grainy. Should I sand the daylights out of it?
I hope it's not too late for this, but with the current problem with Behr paint DO NOT make C&S™ Ultra using that paint or it too would hot spot.I can post comparison pics of the UPW to the BOC if anyone is interested. Today I am going to paint a 2' x 3' panel of BOC with Cream & Sugar Ultra to compare to. If after painting my screen with RS-MM-LL, I find the negatives outweigh the positives for me, I will likely repaint the screen with C&S (or who knows, maybe even an Elektra).
I thought I did recommend BOC. :scratch: The two samples of it that I have measured with my spectro have both been quite neutral in color on the smooth side and both close enough to N9 to call them such. The only thing that is lacking with BOC is gain; since it has no gloss to it at all it will appear to be a darker screen than an N9 OTS flat finish paint . Depending on the viewing angle desired this isn't a bad thing. The other thing about BOC is that one must make a frame for it. Most people looking for an inexpensive DIY screen are looking to simply paint their wall.Another thing I was wondering about after speaking with Harpmaker in PM: I'm curious why I have never once read anyone (on either forum) actually *recommend* BOC as an ideal solution for some, and not just as a stopgap or cheap material to get by with. It sounds like every other possible screen, from a paint solution requiring $100 of paint and equipment to a $2000 Studiotek, is going to be a compromise, either having worse blacks or worse whites than BOC. Yet it doesn't seem like anyone feels that BOC is actually the BEST solution for anyone. Why not?
For painting on fabric (BOC) a real primer may not be necessary since the fabric should have enough "tooth" for a finish paint or mix to stick to. You do need to seal the BOC with something so that it doesn't absorb more finish paint than needed. I think a real primer would have worked better since it is actually designed to seal surfaces, but I don't know how big the difference is when coating BOC. What concerns me about the current Behr #1850 product is the VERY bad reviews it is getting! :huh:Hmm, now I'm worried about the Behr! I know it's not a real primer, but unless I'm mistaken, Highside and others have talked about going straight to 1850 for the base coats on BOC, so that's what I did.
That is another problem associated with BOC since it can absorb paint differently in different areas of the screen. The flatter the finish of the screen paint or mix the less this matters and the higher the gloss or reflectivity of the paint or mix the more it matters. We haven't had enough user reports back from using C&S™ Ultra in situations like this to know how it would be affected, but a high directional gain mix like RS-MM-LL could definitely be problematic.One thing is that my texture is pretty uneven (guess I didn't do as good a job as I thought); the top third or so of the screen is much smoother than the bottom third and somewhat smoother than the middle third; the bottom third is like sandpaper. So this might be user error.
Oh oh, that could be bad. The way to tell if the projector is causing the hot spot is that the hot spot will not move as you change your viewing angle and position. It will if the screen is causing the hot spotting.
You know, looking through my pics, it must be something with my projector or something. Even the BOC has the same "hotspot" pattern. Here is the BOC and the UPW, both at 1/40sec exposure:
Yeah, the LBS can be tough to get into the mix. You need to stir the mix, no matter how long, until you don't see ANY lumps of LBS though as lumps of pure LBS would have different reflective characteristics than the rest of the mix. If you have to, use the wife's electric hand mixer to do the job. Since you are spraying the mix rather than rolling it won't matter if air gets whipped into the mix or not. Just be sure to clean the mixer until it's spotless before taking it back to the kitchen or you may be sleeping on the couch for a while. :gulp:I have the Valspar for the C&S Ultra. This is the product number on the can, although as you said it now says "super flat" on the can.
But I'm having trouble mixing the Liquitex with it. The silver is remaining in clumps. Unfortunately when I went to Lowe's to purchase the squirrel mixer shown on their site, they had the correct SKU but it was actually a different mixer, a paddle-type, so I was forced to get that.
With our mixes and OTS paints you don't need a "baby bottom smooth" screen, what you need is a fairly smooth surface (NOT like cinder block though) and for it to be the same texture over the whole screen surface.I think I'm just terrible at spraying. It seems like no matter what, I'm spraying too much paint. I'm moving quickly, I'm 14" (or more) away, and my paint flows through the nylon strainer easily.
I used 8oz of Valspar and 8oz of Liquitex, plus water to thin appropriately, and only got 4 coats on my 2' x 3' panel. There were 2oz left in the container but my bottom pass had begun to sputter due to the sprayer design (what a terrible idea, by the way, making sure you can never use all your paint). The screen is not rough but is certainly not approaching "glass" or "baby bottom" smooth. Looks orange peel-y to me. And it takes an hour, minimum, for a coat to dry in a basement room that is about 70 degrees.
Maybe I'm just overlapping too much? Each pass should drop down what, about 4"?
It sounds like the sprayer may not be working right. Check your manual's troubleshooting section (if it has one, most do) and be sure all parts are assembled correctly and working. You could also try spraying some UPW again just to check the gun. If the UPW sprays as it did before then there is a problem with the RS-MM-LL mix otherwise it's the sprayer.Uh oh. So naturally when I go for the first "money" coat of RS-MM-LL, it seems like I may have added too much water. Came out in far-spaced wet grey dots here and there, very watery. I guess my only path is to mix a bit more of the RS-MM-LL, which will be tricky because it will be small amounts, and add it in to thicken the pot?
later edit: Yeah, I don't know what's going on. I added the remaining 2oz of Liquitex plus the respective amounts of the rest and no additional water, remixed and strained, and I'm having the same problem. Instead of a finely atomized mist I'm getting very far apart wet splotches.
Could this be too *little* water? It doesn't seem like it though, it flows through the strainer fine (it seems).
Yeah, that would be great wouldn't it? :daydream: Unfortunately there is too wide a philosophical gap between their DIY screen forum and ours. They totally disregard scientific principles there (even ignoring the laws of physics) supplanting them with their own theories and wishful thinking. A case in point is the fact that they try to use a paint strainer "sock" to gauge if a paint mix is ready to spray; there are so many things wrong with that method I won't go into it here. The point is that the sprayer comes with a paint cup that is designed to measure paint flow (both viscosity and rheology) which they advocate people not use and instead pour the mixed paint through a sock filter and judge the flow rate "by eye". Wow. :doh:(cross-posted to AVS; I wish everyone could just get along!)