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Discussion Starter #1
Screen Paint Recommendation for Epson 8350


Hello All

Long time lurker first time poster.

Long story short 1 year past originally planned completion date of my basement renovation I am finally looking forward to painting my screen. The wall in question is new drywall with 2 coats of kilz primer. I would like to apply with a roller ( would have considered spraying but too late now I am concerned about overspray in other parts of the room as the rest of the wall are painted). I don’t mind doing a more complicated paint mix.

I am looking at creating a screen that has 16:9 aspect ratio with a diagonal of approximately 125”. My projector is a 16.75 ft from the wall hanging from a ceiling mount. The room is totally light controlled and the windows have blackout curtains (that being said I don’t mind a bit of ambient light when watching movies. I would anticipate having a bit of ambient light for 40 percent of my viewing) I purchased a lux meter that was recommended in this forum (lx1010b) which I hope will help. Here is are the readings I got this morning (projector is new and is running factory defaults)

The numbers varied a lot depending on where I took the reading and what color mode was selected. What I did was took one reading in the middle top of the screen and one at dead center for the test screen and a couple of different modes:

Blue test screen ==> top center = 40 lux, dead center = 38lux
Dynamic Mode with Lord of the Rings paused at the map of Middle Earth ==> top center = 50 lux, dead center = 22 lux
Cinema Mode with Lord of the Rings paused at the map of Middle Earth ==> top center = 21 lux, dead center = 15 lux

If you need more info or clarification of my wall of text please let me know

Thank you for your time
 

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Welcome to HTS mandalore! :wave:

It's very cool that you took the intuitive and purchased a light meter so you know what YOUR PJ is kicking out of the lens! :clap: We have been lax in our duties by not having a thread detailing how to use such a meter. My apologizes for that and I'll try to correct that oversight soon.

You will need a white image to test your PJ output. You could make your own white image on your PC by making an image that is a solid white (RGB values are all 255) in the resolution of your PJ and then burn that image to a DVD. However, I really suggest you get a proper calibration DVD which will have a 100 IRE image (solid white) on it, and of course others, to help properly set your PJ's brightness, contrast and color settings.

When taking measurements with your light meter, place the sensor as close to the screen surface as you can with the sensor pointing toward the PJ. You want to measure the PJ light striking the screen (called "incident light"), not the screen's reflectance. I found that you need to tilt the sensor slightly up, down, left and right a little until you get the brightest readings.

Your brightest reading will probably be in the center of the screen (unless your PJ is offset to the side and you are using lens shift). This is the value we are most concerned with. You could also take readings at each corner of the screen and in the middle of each edge of the screen to get a sense of how evenly your PJ is "painting" the screen. Don't be too concerned about these values being lower than the center of the screen unless there is more than a 1/3rd difference. For example: the center of the screen reads 150 Lux and the other areas drop down to around 100 Lux. As I understand things a difference of this amount is not uncommon and is hard to detect with the eyes alone. If you are getting lower readings (say 50% lower) and the difference is easy to see with the naked eye then you might want to contact the PJ manufacturer.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the info and quick reply harpmaker.

I will get those updated numbers for the rgb 255 255 255 and post them as soon I get back from work.

I actually found that highest readings i was getting was top center rather than dead center. My projector is mounted on a peerless projector mount in my case the projector is a about 3-4 inches from the ceiling. I figured seeing as it was the shortest distance it would be higher which is what i was seeing. I have not changed any settings other than color modes and manually adjusted the lens to adjust the size and focus. I will reset back to factory defaults just to make sure.

cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hello again

I purchased a calibration blu ray called Disney World of Wonder but could not find a pure white screen (maybe i am blind :scratch: )

Anyways after getting frustrated with the my inability to find the test screen what I did was created a 1080p size white image ( 1920×1080 ) that was RGB 255 255 255

The following is what i found with the sensor pressed flat against the wall at the following locations:

Top Left = 312 Lux
Top Center = 425 Lux
Top Right = 321 Lux
Bottom Left = 268 Lux
Bottom Center = 415 Lux
Bottom Right = 306 Lux
Dead Center 450 Lux

I did 3 trials at each spot and took and average

cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Just appending my previous post. Forgot to mention the above readings were in "dynamic mode" which appears to be the brightest of the preset modes also forgot to include cinema mode settings. I will consolidate all my readings for clarity.

The following is what i found with the sensor pressed flat against the wall at the following locations:

Dynamic Mode

Top Left = 312 Lux
Top Center = 425 Lux
Top Right = 321 Lux
Bottom Left = 268 Lux
Bottom Center = 415 Lux
Bottom Right = 306 Lux
Dead Center 450 Lux

Cinema Mode

Top Left = 91 Lux
Top Center = 125 Lux
Top Right = 95 Lux
Bottom Left = 80 Lux
Bottom Center = 124 Lux
Bottom Right = 92 Lux
Dead Center 133 Lux

I did 3 trials at each spot and took and average

cheers
 

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In Cinema mode you are right about 11-12 fL for most of the image. In Dynamic mode that jumps up to around 40-42 fL (Lux to fL converter here). The normal range of image brightness that people prefer is 12-16 fL so you are at the lower end of that in Cinema mode even with a white screen. However, we have found that what people call an acceptably bright image is very subjective. For instance both Mech and I are quite happy using a Black Widow™ screen (a darker gray) with a measured image brightness of 12 fL while several other folks that visited the forum thought anything less than 16 fL was just too dim even with a white screen.

If you like to have some ambient light on during viewing I would still recommend a light gray screen. We usually recommend Valspar paints due to availability, and they are still a good choice; but Lowe's is in the middle of phasing out the older paint versions for the newer paint+primer stuff (which I don't like, but such seems to be the way of the future). The color of paint would be Glidden 'Snowfield' (a N9 neutral gray) and the paint would be Valspar Ultra Premium in Flat Enamel finish, Valspar Ultra Premium in Super Flat finish or Valspar Ultra in Super Flat finish (these are all basically the same paint, just under different names). Use a 1/4 inch nap roller cover to apply the paint.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks so much for all of the info.

I don't know if I can find that paint here in Canada. I live about 1 hour away from Bellingham Washington so maybe i can pop down there ( only headache being going through customs both ways )

One more question. If i wanted to use the projector in cinema mode would a more reflective mix like the cream & sugar be an option as well?
 

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Thanks so much for all of the info.

I don't know if I can find that paint here in Canada. I live about 1 hour away from Bellingham Washington so maybe i can pop down there ( only headache being going through customs both ways )

One more question. If i wanted to use the projector in cinema mode would a more reflective mix like the cream & sugar be an option as well?
Oops. forgot you are in CA. The good news is that Glidden, Dulux and CIL paints are available in Glidden 'Snowfield' and you should be able to get them locally. The bad news (not that bad really) is that I'm not familiar with the gloss levels of those paints so I could only recommend using a Flat or Matte finish paint to guarantee no hot spotting.

C&S™ Ultra would work for you nicely in Cinema mode, but I'm not sure about watching sports in Dynamic mode. I don't recall anyone hitting a C&S™ Ultra screen with that much light. While I don't think it would hot spot even under those light levels, it might show some light "graininess" in large solid color areas such as snow or ice. Another thing is that while there will be a visible brightness difference between C&S™ Ultra and a regular Off-The-Shelf N9 paint, it wouldn't be a "day and night" difference.
 

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Mandalore, I made a mistake when I suggested you use a RGB 255 image for 100 IRE. Turns out the RGB value should have been 235 to equal 100 IRE. RGB 255 would be 109 IRE. Sorry about that. :blush:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I have redone my tests using 235 white for the test image rather than 255.

To to recap everthing in on post for clarity.

I created a test .png image 1920X1080(1080p) with the rgb value 235 235 235 and opened it with my blueray player. Light levels were tested with a lx1010b luxmeter with the sensor rested flat on the wall. I figured while i was at it i would test 3 modes Dynamic, Living room, and Cinema on my Epson 8350 projector.

The projector is 16' 7" away from the wall it is projecting on. The diagonal on the picture is approx 125"(horzontal width is 108")

The room has the option of being totally light controlled but I like having a little ambient light for anything other than a "serious movie night"

Dynamic

Top Left = 262 Lux
Top Center = 359 Lux
Top Right = 263 Lux
Bottom Left = 220 Lux
Bottom Center = 348 Lux
Bottom Right = 248 Lux
Dead Center 370 Lux

Living Room

Top Left = 247 Lux
Top Center = 334 Lux
Top Right = 250 Lux
Bottom Left = 211 Lux
Bottom Center = 328 Lux
Bottom Right = 232 Lux
Dead Center 354 Lux

Cinema

Top Left = 78 Lux
Top Center = 107 Lux
Top Right = 78 Lux
Bottom Left = 68 Lux
Bottom Center = 106 Lux
Bottom Right = 80 Lux
Dead Center 112 Lux


thanks again for everyones help.
 

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So I am guessing that the new readings which are lower than my first ones with rgb background of 255 rather than 235 are not significant enough to change the original recommendations?

So my options suggested so far now are:
  • Snowfield (using valspar paint) N9
  • Cream&Sugar (using valspar paint + Liquitex BASICS 'Silver' acrylic paint) N9.2
  • White Opulence 879 (Benjamin Moore) N9.6
I was looking at the "list of know finishes and tints" sticky in this forum and did not see Benjamin Moore paints on the list. Does that mean they need more testing?

Benjamin moore is litterally right now the street for me, however I would prefer to take the safe route if there is any doubts.

thanks
 

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So I am guessing that the new readings which are lower than my first ones with rgb background of 255 rather than 235 are not significant enough to change the original recommendations?

So my options suggested so far now are:
  • Snowfield (using valspar paint) N9
  • Cream&Sugar (using valspar paint + Liquitex BASICS 'Silver' acrylic paint) N9.2
  • White Opulence 879 (Benjamin Moore) N9.6
Your Cinema mode brightness is now ~10.5 fL. I personally could still happily use a N9 screen, but we are now in a VERY subjective area of image brightness. A very important question now is how many hours do you have on the PJ lamp? Another important question is would you be happy using Living Room mode to watch movies?

I was looking at the "list of know finishes and tints" sticky in this forum and did not see Benjamin Moore paints on the list. Does that mean they need more testing?

Benjamin moore is litterally right now the street for me, however I would prefer to take the safe route if there is any doubts.

thanks
Benjamin Moore makes good paint, but we don't have a lot of experience with it. According to the EasyRGB database they have a color called '2133-70 TUNDRA' that is a nice N9 shade of gray. If you want to use that paint I would suggest getting it in Flat or Matte finish just to be safe.
 

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The projector is new actually but it has been in the box till recently. I bought it a year ago but my weekend project went a little over schedule ;-)

There is about 15 hours on the bulb.

Do you think there is something wrong with the projector or my setup?
 

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Sorry forgot to comment on the living room mode.

When i first set it up i only liked dynamic mode but after watching for a bit i now also like living room mode.

Cinema mode looks ok with 100% blackout
 

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Benjamin Moore makes good paint, but we don't have a lot of experience with it. According to the EasyRGB database they have a color called '2133-70 TUNDRA' that is a nice N9 shade of gray. If you want to use that paint I would suggest getting it in Flat or Matte finish just to be safe.
Nice finding Don!!

I 'll test it and report back...:wave:
 
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