Sealed TC Sounds LMS Ultra 5400 18" NOOB STYLE!!

114068 Views 445 Replies 19 Participants Last post by ISLAND1000, Jan 28, 2017

brandon123

Discussion Starter · May 1, 2012 (Edited)

Hello HTS!!

I have been reading over this forum for about 4 weeks now and only been a member for one. Got some pretty good ideas about doing a DIY Subwoofer from reading through the threads. I specifically like a couple members builds ( Island1000 and bassthatHz) that involved an LMS ultra 5400 18". It looked simple, yet effective.

Simple is definately key here due to the fact i have ZERO wood working experience (Steel worker by trade). In fact i bought a router and am going to have to go buy the table saw this week. Maybe one or two tools depending on if its something that would make it alot easier. I plan on building more stuff in the future so i look at it as an investment.

The reason for this build is that i have tried a few compact high dollar subs that sound good but just don't have the umph i am looking for. So got rid of them and for the $$ i think i can do better. ... Hopefully

I am going to try and keep this as detailed as i can, so that way others can chime in and point out my mistakes. I imagine there will be quite a few lol. Also, so others with the same skill level can see what i do and can maybe learn something off my attempt. At the least, it should make for entertainment

Here is what i got comming for the Build so far:

1) TC Sounds LMS Ultra 5400 18"
2) CROWN CE4000
3) Dayton Audio ADQM-RCAF RCA Jack To 1/4" Mono Plug
4) Round Speaker Terminal 2-7/8" Gold Spring-Loaded

-I purchased a used but good shape milwaukee router 5615-21.

-I am looking at either the RYOBI r4510 saw or the bosch 4100. Still undecided so any suggestions would be helpful

Got other various tools such as jig saw, circular saw, reciprocating saw, little power sander, drills, etc.

I am undecided about a EQ. My original idea was to buy the ANTI-MODE 8033. The guy i got the Crown from said it was unessesary due to it had a crossover built in???

For wood was thinking MDF

EDIT: When I first did the write up I didn't expect it to grow so huge. so to save you time from reading several pages, here is a video of how the build turned out. the mic on my phone makes it sound weird. sucker is a beast. made this video 4/6/2016

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chrapladm

· #2 · May 1, 2012

MDF is fine. Great for subwoofers. What is the price on the 8033?

I dont know anything about that one but usually would use a MiniDsp.

Your amplifier I dont know enough about but I only thought it had a low pass selectable switch and a Hpass selectable switch. No real EQ.

Using the TC SOunds Ultra will be awesome. From what others have told me you will be amplifier limited. Those 18's like power. More than your amp will deliver. But thats not to say it wont sound amazing with your amplifier. Just saying their is potential for better.

Have you seen Warpdrv's subs?

sub_crazy

· #3 · May 1, 2012

Both the Ryobi and Bosch have a max rip capacity of 25" which would be more than enough for a sealed LMS Ultra build but is small if you plan on doing a lot more DIY in the future. Isn't the Bosch over $500? for that I would definitely look into other table saws with a larger rip capacity. I personally would look for used table saws as well on craigslist or other local classifieds. I started off with a Craftsman refurbished portable table saw I got for $100 and it had a larger rip capacity. The thing with these smaller table saws is they tend to have a flimsy fence that you will have to adjust often to get good cuts. For about $500 I think I might like this Rigid instead: http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hard...splay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051
Has a little bigger rip capacity of 30" and the fence looks better but that was just searching on the fly so you may find better options out there. I picked up one of the larger Rigid table saws with an all cast iron top and a much bigger rip capacity at the HD brand new when they were changing over to the new saws which I think have been discontinued. They were $300 at the blow out price and luckily I got one of the last ones in my area. It's not a Delta Unisaw but for the small amount of DIY I do it works great and has a much better fence than the portable saws out there.

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sub_crazy

· #4 · May 1, 2012

2

I personally prefer 3/4" Baltic Birch over MDF but it can be hard to source as it is not carried at the HD or Lowes. I would definitely recommend you add a significant amount of bracing and the heavier the enclosure the better when it comes to the LMS Ultra, if not it will rock the enclosure.

Here is a pic of the cabinets I made for my LMS Ultra's, it is a layer or 3/4" Ultra Light MDF followed by another layer of 3/4" Baltic Birch for a total of 1.5" thick walls. The baffle is actually 2.25" all Baltic Birch as I wanted a solid chunk to secure the LMS Ultra to.

I wound up using these feet below to help anchor the LMS to the un-carpeted floor it would be sitting on and it never moved:

I know it's over kill but I had the LMS Ultra in a temporary MDF box that had good bracing but the LMS would actually push the box so much that it moved 5" until it was touching the wall. You could actually feel the box shake when I put my hands on it during loud passages so I knew I had to go all out.

Now that I think about it I just saw that Erich from http://www.diysoundgroup.com/ is making up flat packs with very similar bracing as what did. From what I read it should be available in a week or 2 and the 18" flat pack would be perfect for the LMS Ultra as it is about 4cuft.

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sub_crazy

· #5 · May 1, 2012

I think your Crown amp will be fine, I read it is 2800 watts into 4 ohms bridged which is about right for a 4cuft sealed enclosure and the LMS Ultra. Sure you could go for more but it wouldn't make that huge of a difference.

brandon123

Discussion Starter · #6 · May 2, 2012 (Edited)

chrapladm said:
MDF is fine. Great for subwoofers. What is the price on the 8033?

I dont know anything about that one but usually would use a MiniDsp.

Your amplifier I dont know enough about but I only thought it had a low pass selectable switch and a Hpass selectable switch. No real EQ.

Using the TC SOunds Ultra will be awesome. From what others have told me you will be amplifier limited. Those 18's like power. More than your amp will deliver. But thats not to say it wont sound amazing with your amplifier. Just saying their is potential for better.

Have you seen Warpdrv's subs?

I was originally going to use a behringer ep2500 but after seeing this test thread, i figured the crown would be a good match. Anything higher power would probably be either too hard to find or out of my price range. so i hope it does good.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...55-diy-tc-sounds-lms-5400-18-sealed-100l.html

The anti-mode is discussed in this thread http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...tions/22448-new-product-anti-mode-8033-a.html
There is a link in that thread where a person does a test with it that came out pretty good. i believe the cost for the cinema version of the antimode is around 350-400 I have been reading on the EQ's but it can seem quite overwhelming when your trying to jump in it.

I haven't seen the warpdrv's subs. i have googled it and come up with nothing. do you have a link

brandon123

Discussion Starter · #7 · May 2, 2012

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brandon123

Discussion Starter · #8 · May 2, 2012 (Edited)

sub_crazy said:
Both the Ryobi and Bosch have a max rip capacity of 25" which would be more than enough for a sealed LMS Ultra build but is small if you plan on doing a lot more DIY in the future. Isn't the Bosch over $500? for that I would definitely look into other table saws with a larger rip capacity. I personally would look for used table saws as well on craigslist or other local classifieds. I started off with a Craftsman refurbished portable table saw I got for $100 and it had a larger rip capacity. The thing with these smaller table saws is they tend to have a flimsy fence that you will have to adjust often to get good cuts. For about $500 I think I might like this Rigid instead: http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hard...splay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051
Has a little bigger rip capacity of 30" and the fence looks better but that was just searching on the fly so you may find better options out there. I picked up one of the larger Rigid table saws with an all cast iron top and a much bigger rip capacity at the HD brand new when they were changing over to the new saws which I think have been discontinued. They were $300 at the blow out price and luckily I got one of the last ones in my area. It's not a Delta Unisaw but for the small amount of DIY I do it works great and has a much better fence than the portable saws out there.

Excellent, this is the kind of response i was looking for on the saw. Its funny but the link you listed was actually the saw i was looking at when in home depot. I must have copied the number wrong. And i have been leaning toward that one. I'm not looking to wheel it all over the place. just going to be in the garage.

sub_crazy said:
I personally prefer 3/4" Baltic Birch over MDF but it can be hard to source as it is not carried at the HD or Lowes. I would definitely recommend you add a significant amount of bracing and the heavier the enclosure the better when it comes to the LMS Ultra, if not it will rock the enclosure.

Here is a pic of the cabinets I made for my LMS Ultra's, it is a layer or 3/4" Ultra Light MDF followed by another layer of 3/4" Baltic Birch for a total of 1.5" thick walls. The baffle is actually 2.25" all Baltic Birch as I wanted a solid chunk to secure the LMS Ultra to.

I wound up using these feet below to help anchor the LMS to the un-carpeted floor it would be sitting on and it never moved:

I know it's over kill but I had the LMS Ultra in a temporary MDF box that had good bracing but the LMS would actually push the box so much that it moved 5" until it was touching the wall. You could actually feel the box shake when I put my hands on it during loud passages so I knew I had to go all out.

Now that I think about it I just saw that Erich from http://www.diysoundgroup.com/ is making up flat packs with very similar bracing as what did. From what I read it should be available in a week or 2 and the 18" flat pack would be perfect for the LMS Ultra as it is about 4cuft.

Birch is offered here locally an i think its only 15 more bucks per sheet. so if thats the better wood to go with then i will. I like the looks of your box and all the bracing. I might steal an idea or two from it.

sub_crazy said:
I think your Crown amp will be fine, I read it is 2800 watts into 4 ohms bridged which is about right for a 4cuft sealed enclosure and the LMS Ultra. Sure you could go for more but it wouldn't make that huge of a difference.

It seemed to fit spec wise on the watts, either way, its gotta be better than what i have now

sub_crazy

· #9 · May 2, 2012

The pics of my box is the actual birch that is stained and I used 3/4" Maple 1/4 rounds for the edges so the ply is not visible.

Here is a pic of the box with the maple 1/4 rounds in place prior to final sanding and stain:

I had a local shop do the stain for me as I heard that stain was tough on birch and would come out blotchy. I should have practiced on some scrap and did it my-self though, just as long as you pre-treat the wood first I hear you can get good results and I know I could have done as nice or better than what the furniture repair shop did. I also heard that a glaze stain would be the proper stain for birch but I never really looked into it, next time I guess.

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sub_crazy

· #10 · May 2, 2012

brandon123 said:
Birch is offered here locally an i think its only 15 more bucks per sheet. so if thats the better wood to go with then i will. I like the looks of your box and all the bracing. I might steal an idea or two from it.

You will want to make sure it's 13 ply Baltic Birch, you may be talking about the 7ply birch that Lowes and HD carries but that can be loaded with voids.

Here is what 13ply BB looks like from the sides, notice there are no voids in the ply's:

7 Ply can be good as well as long as it doesn't have voids in it and sometimes you get lucky. It is cheaper, I think HD has the 7 ply birch 4 x 8 for about $47 the last time I checked but shop grade Baltic Birch 3/4" 4 x 8 was close to $70 but it is MUCH better material.

Ply's are more difficult to cut though and I would definitely recommend a zero clearance insert made for the Rigid you are looking at you table saw and a good blade like this Freud LU79R010 Thin Kerf Ultimate Plywood & Melamine Saw Blade 10 inch. I had a hard time cutting with my normal rip saw and a friend recommended those items and it made a huge difference.

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chrapladm

· #11 · May 2, 2012

brandon123 said:
I was originally going to use a behringer ep2500 but after seeing this test thread, i figured the crown would be a good match. Anything higher power would probably be either too hard to find or out of my price range. so i hope it does good.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...55-diy-tc-sounds-lms-5400-18-sealed-100l.html

The anti-mode is discussed in this thread http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...tions/22448-new-product-anti-mode-8033-a.html
There is a link in that thread where a person does a test with it that came out pretty good. i believe the cost for the cinema version of the antimode is around 350-400 I have been reading on the EQ's but it can seem quite overwhelming when your trying to jump in it.

I haven't seen the warpdrv's subs. i have googled it and come up with nothing. do you have a link

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...cts/31767-dual-opposed-18-lmss-xlerators.html

brandon123

Discussion Starter · #12 · May 2, 2012

I bet your right about it being 7. At 70 dollars I believe I am going to make a practice box with cheaper material. Because I'm sure when I get done I'm going to wish I would have done this or that differently. It's something I'm going to have for a long while, so what's an extra 50 bucks and a week or two

sub_crazy

· #13 · May 2, 2012

brandon123 said:
I am undecided about a EQ. My original idea was to buy the ANTI-MODE 8033. The guy i got the Crown from said it was unessesary due to it had a crossover built in???

The Anti-mode is the wrong EQ for this application as you need something to manually apply the needed boost down low that sealed subs require.

Then easiest solution is the Velodyne SMS-1 as it combines a real time graph and measurement solution and it's customization is user friendly: http://www.amazon.com/Velodyne-SMS-1-Correction-Included-Microphone/dp/B000CEGI50

There are other devices that can be used as well like the MiniDSP and Behringer products such as the DEQ2496, Mic2200 and the Feedback destroyer. All of these need an analysis tool like the Room EQ Wizard that is available her on the Home Theater Shack for free but you need to add a microphone and mic pre-amp to use it's functions.

brandon123

Discussion Starter · #14 · May 3, 2012

i'm soing to have to check into that one a bit more. seems to get mixed reviews on this site. many have complained of a humming noise.

For my next question.......When using a really good wood glue, can i use an air gun with finishing nails instead of screws???

sub_crazy

· #15 · May 3, 2012

brandon123 said:
i'm soing to have to check into that one a bit more. seems to get mixed reviews on this site. many have complained of a humming noise.

With the SMS-1? I know the others I mentioned do have problems with hum but have never heard of problems with the SMS-1. Just make sure you get something that will allow you to add boost down low.

I have to make a correction about the Anti-mode now that I read more about it. Even though it is an automatic EQ it does have a lift 15-25hz mode which boosts frequency's between 15 and 25hz with a max 8db boost but it also engages a 10hz HPF which is OK in my book but others might not like that. I did not know this about the Anti-mode so now it looks like a viable alternative. I still like the SMS-1 better as I like to tailor the response my-self and also be able to see in real-time what is going on.

Here is a screen shot of the SMS-1 so you can see how easy it is:

For my next question.......When using a really good wood glue, can i use an air gun with finishing nails instead of screws???

If I am in a hurry I use an nail gun with 1 1/4" brad nails but fasteners are not needed if you wanted to just glue and clamp. The fasteners are only there to hold the wood together while the glue dries, once the glue dries it is what holds the box together. Careful with nails or screws on the corners if you want to apply a round-over, this is when you just want to glue and clamp. I use Titebond II all the time, a lot of people like PL Premium but it is really messy and it will take a few days to get it off your fingers if you don't use gloves. PL is great if you don't have tight glue joints as it expands as it dries. Just keep your glue joints tight with no gaps and Titiebond II will be your best friend.

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brandon123

Discussion Starter · #16 · May 4, 2012 (Edited)

I got the Subwoofer in the mail today. It was very easy to put together. I was expecting something a little more complicated. Let me say, its one thing to see them on youtube video's and pics, but its another to hold one in your hands. sucker is impressive. (for a thousand bucks though it should be lol)

I am still tossing it up on the sms-1 and the auto-mode. Actually tried to buy (best offer) an sms-1 on ebay today but they wanted almost new price for a used one. so that was a no go.

I decided to try something before investing 500 in the saw. I am going to get a straight edge and clamp it down to the wood and just butt my skill saw next to it for a straight cut. i know it will take longer than a table saw to get everything lined up, but i'm thinking it should work out for what i need. I bought a better saw blade for it. i got a freud ultra finish 60t. (best one they had for a 7 1/4 that i could see).

I went with your recommendation on glue.. at least i thought i had, i didn't get the titebond II i accidentally grabbed the titebond III because i couldn't remember.

Also went to get some wood clamps, them suckers arent cheap. Had no idea a wood clamp would run 30 bucks. wasn't sure how many i would need, so just grabbed a couple.

Also got a new framing square. ones i had are worn out from being used on metal.

Now just gotta figure out a table to cut on (thnking saw horses) and i will be ready to get with it. I imageine there will be some other hidden cost i'm not thinking of at the moment.

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brandon123

Discussion Starter · #17 · May 5, 2012

Here is what i've got so far. Laid out my 4x8 sheet.

made:
3--23"x23" (front)

2--21"x23" (top and bottom)

2-- 21.5"x21" (sides)

1--21.5"x 21.5 (back)

So overall this should make the outside dimensions 23.25" x 23" x 23"

On the front i wanted it 3 pannels thick. 2 for mounting and 1 to make speaker look flush. i marked the center of the boards. For mounting it calls for the hole to be 16.82". So i figured this to be roughly 16- 7/8" and marked half the distance as 8 -7/16". i then drilled a 5/8" hole that was 5/16" away from the 8- 7/16" mark. Then routed the hole out.

THIS IS WHERE I GOOBERED IT UP>For the 3rd board i measure the hole to be 18-11/16" I wanted to make sure i didn't make it too small and have to redo it. But unfortunately when i Halfed the distance, instead of putting 9-11/32" i believe i put 9-11/16" so now i got this roughly 3/8" gap around the speaker. frustrating indeed.

Other than that, it went good. I was trying to go to deep on the router which was burning the wood. i figured that out soon enough. still didn't perfect it, but got better.

The straight edge i got to clamp down to butt my skill saw up against, worked out great. I'm very happy with it.

Tomorrow i am going to cut the rest of the pannels. Only got four out of 7. It took me a bit to figure out how i was going to make the holes. Ohh and you can tell that they need cleaning up. I may end up redoing the 3rd board to make it look more snugg, not sure yet.

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brandon123

Discussion Starter · #18 · May 5, 2012

10

here are some photos

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Svendsen

· #19 · May 5, 2012

Looks good - front baffle looks solid - keep posting pics

brandon123

Discussion Starter · #20 · May 5, 2012

Svendsen said:
Looks good - front baffle looks solid - keep posting pics

Thanks, and i'm going to. pictures are what make threads interesting and add a little more clarity to what is being described. i decided i am going to get some more wood and redo the panel with the hole i made too big. I don't think it would look bad as it is, but, it was my plan to make it look more tight fitting than that.

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