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Yeah, all of the connections from your AVR to the Amp are analog connections. If your RCA interconnect has more than a few ohm measured resistance or if it has about 75ohm resistance it is a digital cable and not usable here.

Something else to check aside from the "mode switch" set to bridged mono is/are the switches on the back of your AVR or receiver. My Denon AVR has Ohm load switchs which I have set to the highest 16 ohm I believe/I hope. I don't remember but should be set at the highest because I have 7.2 speakers in use most times.

I do not know what your AVR is I don't think. But the problem you describe sounds like it could be this or this type of issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #142
Brandon,
Thanks for the link.

I see you have channel #2 volume turned all the way down; input is connected to chanel #2 on the back panel; and speaker channel #1 and #2 positive terminals are used for bridged mono.

So now is your cable interconnect a digital or analog cable? Is it a 75 ohm cable or no?

The pop noise doesn't sound like too much power to the speaker and the amp is clipping with square waves. Clipping is a real noisy happening. a square wave is not music it is raw dc power burst. You are not clipping you have a bad signal somehow.
If you are using a digital interconnect I believe this connect is still analog. Let me look..., be right back
I have no idea as to what kind of rca cable it is, didn't know there was a difference. How would i tell this?

It sounded like the pop noise came from the sub, not the amp. Like metal hitting metal
 

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Discussion Starter #143
Yeah, all of the connections from your AVR to the Amp are analog connections. If your RCA interconnect has more than a few ohm measured resistance or if it has about 75ohm resistance it is a digital cable and not usable here.

Something else to check aside from the "mode switch" set to bridged mono is/are the switches on the back of your AVR or receiver. My Denon AVR has Ohm load switchs which I have set to the highest 16 ohm I believe/I hope. I don't remember but should be set at the highest because I have 7.2 speakers in use most times.

I do not know what your AVR is I don't think. But the problem you describe sounds like it could be this or this type of issue.
I have a str-dg820 sony amp.........sounds good so i never thought to upgrade it
 

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Metal hitting metal sounds like the amp is clipping to me. I was going to ask you that, but your response seems to have answered it for me.

Have you tried to connect the amp output to another speaker?

How much juice do you have going to the amp? I mean how many volts and what size breaker?
 

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Oh, here is what I would do first. I would put the amp in stereo mode and use 1 channel to see if the channel was working correctly. Hey, one channel of that amp wil drive the woofer very well for testing and most listening conditions. Then, swap channels to see if the other channel is ok. Then go from there.
 

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It sounded like the pop noise came from the sub, not the amp. Like metal hitting metal
The ultra has about 38MM of travel one way. That's about an inch and a half of travel. I have yet to bottom mine. I thought I did once with my XTi 4000 but found out later that the amp had a protective breaker that opened and what I thought was the voice coil bottoming was the amp protection oscillating/cycling. Sounded horrible.
Try one of the other sensitivity settings on the amp. Maybe it's being over driven on the front end by the receiver.
The driver screws HAVE TO BE TIGHT. When that cone makes big movements, it has power to push air through very small openings. A "perfect" seal is a must with this driver. Check your wire terminal for leaks too .
Did you use the frame gasket that came with the Ultra? How did that fit?
You can down load free subwoofer test tones online. I'd get some so you can identify which frequencies might be suspects in causing the noise you heard. If you can duplicate the frequency it'll be easier to identify the noise source.
How did you wire the dual voice coils of the Ultra, parallel or in series? It's easy to mix up the voice coil wiring and get one coil out of phase with the other.
With the Anti mode boosting the bass, the amount of amp energy required to reproduce subsonic material becomes HUGE! In the vicinity of a few thousand watts and even higher. It might be the Ultra is taking all the juice the CE 4000 has and the result is the amp is clipping producing the metal to metal sound. On the other hand, you might have damaged something during your free air experiments but I doubt it.
 

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I have no idea as to what kind of rca cable it is, didn't know there was a difference. How would i tell this?

It sounded like the pop noise came from the sub, not the amp. Like metal hitting metal
Careful with that, sounds like it is hitting the back plate from over excursion. Look at the anti-modes manual and if I remember correctly it has a lift 25hz mode that also adds in a high pass filter at 10hz to prevent over excursion.

If it hits the back plate hard enough it will mushroom the cone and damage the speaker so be very careful.
 

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Oh, here is what I would do first. I would put the amp in stereo mode and use 1 channel to see if the channel was working correctly. Hey, one channel of that amp wil drive the woofer very well for testing and most listening conditions. Then, swap channels to see if the other channel is ok. Then go from there.
That's good advice.
 

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Do you have a SPL meter? I would get one and run the speaker level calibration for your receiver and make sure you calibrate the subs levels to the rest of your speakers.
 

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Oh, by the way, did you notice the noise that sounded like a quick metal screach and the woofer really not moving all that much. I saw these drivers moving so far as to dimple the surrounds and they did not bottom. Good clean power is a must and a 220 volt circuit on that amp is needed to bring it to life. Give it a 220 breaker at about 30 amps. I hope you are not plugging this amp into a power conditioner along with all your other equipment on a 15 or 20 amp 120 volt breaker.

Good luck.
 

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Good question Robert. He IS using a line conditioner. Not sure if he's using 220 or 110. If he's got everything plugged into the line conditioner he may be sagging the voltage reducing the wattage rating.
 

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The moment I saw that Monster 5100, I started to question the voltage. Most homes do not have enough power to power anything beyond basic setups. Those amps need dedicated lines and no conditioners according to Crown-I asked them directly.
 

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My home has been struck by lightning 2 times that I know of. Everything that was not surge protected was fried. All of the phones were cooked and 2 tv's and all of the panamax line conditioners were toast. But, what was plugged into the panamax's was left unharmed. So, I am into surge more than conditioning the source.
 

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Brandon,
This is getting interesting. The original description was... you were playing a movie with volume set at ??? more than half volume ??? 3/4 volume ??? and in a powerful programming passage you heard a loud POP and a hiss...???

Now the POP sounded like metal on metal..., could the hiss actually be the voice coil's chaffing against the magnet or was it more like air.

You know if the sound was/is a pop your problem could have been a dirty Pot (potentiometer) a little tuner cleaner with lube would take care of that. You would hear this noise at the speaker not the amp where it originates.

With this new description..., definately check the amp channel by channel but first are you sure the speaker itself/voice coils are correctly wired.

* Could you go over the details again, what part of the program, the volume level, the noises made..., anything else you can think of.

Oh by the way a digital cable has 75ohm measured RCA center pin to center pin with a Volt/Ohm meter. A Volt/Ohm meter is a handy item to have around the house and around on these audio builds. You could buy a Fluke or Greenlee but all you need is one that tells you about how many Ohms you have in this case or beeps if a wire is good.

Here is a Klien meter set for $29 http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202946167/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=multimeter&storeId=10051

@ Home Depot you can buy a meter for $10 (analog with sweep hand) or $20 for Digital multimeter but this Klien set gives you what every home-owner or renter needs for electrical testing..., Find out if both batteries are dead or if one has a little life still left in it. Check to be sure any wall receptacle is wired correctly.

Hope you get this sub figured out soon...
 

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Discussion Starter #159 (Edited)
Wow!! got alot of input and questions here. I am going to try and answer them all the best i can

Metal hitting metal sounds like the amp is clipping to me. I was going to ask you that, but your response seems to have answered it for me.

Have you tried to connect the amp output to another speaker?

How much juice do you have going to the amp? I mean how many volts and what size breaker?
I connected the Crown amp to a cheap satellite speaker when i was originally trying to figure out why i wasn't getting any sound. Other than that, i don't have anything that could handle enough Umph to get near the 3/4 mark on the Gain knob to test for the popping noise.

The conditioner shows that its usually around 119-121 V and the breaker is 20

Oh, here is what I would do first. I would put the amp in stereo mode and use 1 channel to see if the channel was working correctly. Hey, one channel of that amp wil drive the woofer very well for testing and most listening conditions. Then, swap channels to see if the other channel is ok. Then go from there.
Ok, just did this. I tested both individually in stereo mode and both played well.

The ultra has about 38MM of travel one way. That's about an inch and a half of travel. I have yet to bottom mine. I thought I did once with my XTi 4000 but found out later that the amp had a protective breaker that opened and what I thought was the voice coil bottoming was the amp protection oscillating/cycling. Sounded horrible.
Try one of the other sensitivity settings on the amp. Maybe it's being over driven on the front end by the receiver.
The driver screws HAVE TO BE TIGHT. When that cone makes big movements, it has power to push air through very small openings. A "perfect" seal is a must with this driver. Check your wire terminal for leaks too .
Did you use the frame gasket that came with the Ultra? How did that fit?
You can down load free subwoofer test tones online. I'd get some so you can identify which frequencies might be suspects in causing the noise you heard. If you can duplicate the frequency it'll be easier to identify the noise source.
How did you wire the dual voice coils of the Ultra, parallel or in series? It's easy to mix up the voice coil wiring and get one coil out of phase with the other.
With the Anti mode boosting the bass, the amount of amp energy required to reproduce subsonic material becomes HUGE! In the vicinity of a few thousand watts and even higher. It might be the Ultra is taking all the juice the CE 4000 has and the result is the amp is clipping producing the metal to metal sound. On the other hand, you might have damaged something during your free air experiments but I doubt it.
I will try the sensitivity and see.........Ok just tried it playing Music. Looks like my original problem was pretty much all in the signal. But going from .77 to 1.4 definately made my sub sound alot weaker.

I played the sub pretty hard and didn't feel any air comming around the wire terminals. I boxed the terminal in from the inside and siliconed the small wire hole from both inside and outside then screwed the terminal in.
so if there is any leak at all, it is going to come from the Factory LMS Seal. (which is screwed down tight, but not to the point of stripping the wood)

So, the anti-mode may be an issue with wattage? If so, this can be switched out.

Careful with that, sounds like it is hitting the back plate from over excursion. Look at the anti-modes manual and if I remember correctly it has a lift 25hz mode that also adds in a high pass filter at 10hz to prevent over excursion.

If it hits the back plate hard enough it will mushroom the cone and damage the speaker so be very careful.
So would the filter be a good thing or a bad?

Do you have a SPL meter? I would get one and run the speaker level calibration for your receiver and make sure you calibrate the subs levels to the rest of your speakers.
I actually ran the receiver calibration yesterday. No i don't have an spl meter. If they don't cost a fortune i have no issues getting one.

Oh, by the way, did you notice the noise that sounded like a quick metal screach and the woofer really not moving all that much. I saw these drivers moving so far as to dimple the surrounds and they did not bottom. Good clean power is a must and a 220 volt circuit on that amp is needed to bring it to life. Give it a 220 breaker at about 30 amps. I hope you are not plugging this amp into a power conditioner along with all your other equipment on a 15 or 20 amp 120 volt breaker.

Good luck.
Actually the woofer moved quite a bit. most i have seen it. ....ummmm....i...ummm. yes i am plugging it all onto one circut and into the conditioner. Not sure if i mentioned this, but i cranked up the volume and it set off my conditioner and shut all my equipment down.

do you know if he is using 220 volts?
No ii am not using 220. Is this something that i can do myself.
Good question Robert. He IS using a line conditioner. Not sure if he's using 220 or 110. If he's got everything plugged into the line conditioner he may be sagging the voltage reducing the wattage rating.
Hmmmm, maybe run the power cord to another outlet then? Ok. I use to have a monster power avs 2000 i got cheap. But didn't see the need in it and resold it. I can get another one pretty cheap (like a few hundred), would this solve the power issue on 120V????

The moment I saw that Monster 5100, I started to question the voltage. Most homes do not have enough power to power anything beyond basic setups. Those amps need dedicated lines and no conditioners according to Crown-I asked them directly.
Ok, i believe this goes back to running it to its own outlet correct?

Brandon,
This is getting interesting. The original description was... you were playing a movie with volume set at ??? more than half volume ??? 3/4 volume ??? and in a powerful programming passage you heard a loud POP and a hiss...???

My receiver volume was on around 27 so less than half. between 24-27 is normal movie listening for me. the volume of the amp was around 3/4 where it made the loud pop noise. i adjusted it to just a hair over half and it did it again but more subtle. then at Half way, it disapeared but i noticed the woofer made a woosh kind of noise



Now the POP sounded like metal on metal..., could the hiss actually be the voice coil's chaffing against the magnet or was it more like air.

You know if the sound was/is a pop your problem could have been a dirty Pot (potentiometer) a little tuner cleaner with lube would take care of that. You would hear this noise at the speaker not the amp where it originates.

Sounded like metal to me

With this new description..., definately check the amp channel by channel but first are you sure the speaker itself/voice coils are correctly wired.

Yes the coils are wired for 4 ohm just like the manual says. A positive and negative on opposing sides are linked with a wire. then a positive and negative from each side are connected to amp.

* Could you go over the details again, what part of the program, the volume level, the noises made..., anything else you can think of.

Oh by the way a digital cable has 75ohm measured RCA center pin to center pin with a Volt/Ohm meter. A Volt/Ohm meter is a handy item to have around the house and around on these audio builds. You could buy a Fluke or Greenlee but all you need is one that tells you about how many Ohms you have in this case or beeps if a wire is good.

Here is a Klien meter set for $29 http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202946167/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=multimeter&storeId=10051

@ Home Depot you can buy a meter for $10 (analog with sweep hand) or $20 for Digital multimeter but this Klien set gives you what every home-owner or renter needs for electrical testing..., Find out if both batteries are dead or if one has a little life still left in it. Check to be sure any wall receptacle is wired correctly.

just remembered today that i actually have a really good meter

Hope you get this sub figured out soon..

ME TOO.
 

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A high pass filter would be a good thing when your using a single LMS Ultra with a big amp and adding boost down low that sealed enclosures need.

Radio Shack used to carry a SPL meter for around $35 but you would have to check and see if it's still available. Most receiver calibrations don't do a great job on the sub channel so that is why it's good to have a SPL meter to double check.
 
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