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Discussion Starter #101
Finally got word back from QSC and my repaired PL9.0 is shipping out today.:neener:. They've had it since 11/22. I think that they cut me a deal since it took so long and apparently they had some snags during the repair. $350 shipped both ways and repaired. The initial quote was looking to be much more than that. :bigsmile:
 

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Discussion Starter #102
All 4 XXX subs are placed and running on the 2 PL9.0's now. I'm still in the process of tweaking things out as I can get time, but so far the SQ and ease of output no matter the material are making me happy. I ended up with 2 subs up front and 2 in the back. The front ones are asymetrically placed but the back ones aren't. I'm trying Audyssey for the first time but I'm not sure whether I will continue to use it. It does some things I don't like. I am still in dire need of room treatments, but that will have to wait until I get other things taken care of. The DTS10 has been moved to the rehearsal space.





Main before Audyssey


Main after Audyssey


Waterfall before


Waterfall after
 

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Very impressive mate. Thanks for sharing.

I think I read that for Audyssey (single sub channel calibration) to work for multiple subs they all have to be placed so that they are equal distances from the listening position for time delay. Might be why your not liking what it does ?
 

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Discussion Starter #104
I don't think it matters too much how many subs are being used as the distances between each and even to each main speaker will change at all of the different listening positions measured of which I have many.

The things that I'm not liking are the fact that it always tries to set all of my 5 speakers to fullrange, it boosts the subwoofer channel excessively in my case and it seems to set the overall channe levels a little bit low.
 

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Elite Shackster
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The things that I'm not liking are the fact that it always tries to set all of my 5 speakers to fullrange, it boosts the subwoofer channel excessively in my case and it seems to set the overall channe levels a little bit low.
What AVR are you using. Audyssey have several times stated they always recommend 80hz crossovers. For example, I know Onkyo AVR's try setting speakers to full range under certain conditions against the will of Audyssey. This is more likely the issue, and I dont think Audyssey is to blame.
 

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Just set them to small manually, thats fine by Audyssey :)

As long as you don't set a lower crossover point than what Audyssey sets your apples :) (Audyssey does not EQ below the crossover point it suggests)
 

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Discussion Starter #107
I have an Onkyo TX-SR806 running 2 pairs of Klipsch CF4's and a KV-4 center channel. Other equipment is a DCX2496 running into 2 QSC PL9.0's which power the 4 sealed XXX 18's. PS3 is used for BR/DVD/cd/games.

When the screen at the end of the Audyssey calibration pops up to detail it's settings,all of the main channels are specified as full range. After exiting the Audyssey set-up to the Onkyo menu's the 5 main speakers are all set as full range also. It's done it all 3 times.:dontknow:
 

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Elite Shackster
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Its Onkyo that decided to have their amps set the speakers to full range, based on a set of results they determined. Audyssey disagree with Onkyo (or anyone else) on this and say the speakers should be set to 80hz. You just have to set this yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter #109
That's what I've been doing. I'm lucky in that my speakers are able to shake the room all by themselves down to the 30hz range except for the cc, but even still I'd rather have the subs handle everything and I'd worry about damaging them with some bass heavy soundtrack if left fullrange.

I think I'm going to forego using Audyssey. I messed with it some more and did some testing yesterday and I plan on some more this weekend if I can get time. It just seems to be making some weird choices. I end up switching the crossover between the subs and mains, adjusting the levels as it consistently sets the sub channel 2-3db hotter than the mains, plus it sets the mains too low overall unless both of my CM140 meters measure 2-3db low. I also end up adjusting the distance setting for the sub channel as I know where it should be for the smoothest mix from a lot of testing prior. Basically the only thing left is the Audyssey EQ settings, which don't seem to be that great to me after modifying all of the other settings so much.

I'll try to post up some graphs after some more investigation to illustrate what I mean.
 

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Elite Shackster
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Its possible the mains are enjoying a peak in bass response due to room gain. This may give Audyssey the idea they are louder in reality than they actually sound to your ears (frequency sensitivity an all), although in truth Audyssey is supposed to know and account for all that anyway to a degree. It is also possible that the combined low end performance of your mains boosts output and Audyssey is trying to account for the spl gain increase by reducing the main channels, obviously to the detriment of what your idea of sounding correct is.

I think the customer is always correct though, so if you dont like it then theres nothing wrong with with tinkering IMO.

It will be interesting to see how your individual speakers measure in REW.
 

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Discussion Starter #111
Update.

Here is the best response I can seem to get with the current equipment and room. I've been tweaking when I have time for the last 3 weeks and I've started from scratch 3 times. It's not bad and sounds fairly good too. Treatments are next on the list. I still have a lot of reverberation as the walls and ceiling are mostly flat and bare. There's more eq involved than I would like, but until I get some treatments in the room it is needed. I've got about a +6db shelf below 20hz dialed in and a major q10 cut at 45hz to counter a very nasty room resonance. I also have a slight cut with q8 at about 73hz. I'm trying to get the average response as clean as possible with the main position also a prime consideration. Anything that will improve on both is what my eqing decisions were based on.


Main position, subs plus mains, fullrange response, measured in HolmImpulse. 1/3rd octave smoothing.






Main position, bass range, subs plus mains.








Average response, subs plus mains.






Main position waterfall. Needs improvement. Lots of low end energy storage, but I'm stuck with that.






Here is the progression from 1 (green), 2 (red),3 (blue) to 4 (black) subs and how it fills in and improves the response. Multiple cabs around the room are a huge improvement.
 

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Discussion Starter #114
Klipsch CF4's.

102lbs each, 100db sensitivity rating, 2-ways, 2 12" drivers tuned to 32hz via 2 4" ports and a 2" compression driver in a 14x10 tractrix horn. You can see a picture of them on the last page. Post #102. Also that's a close up of one in my avatar pic.

Not the most pristine, angelically pure speaker ever made, but it's not bad either and there are some things that it does do very well. :demon:
 
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