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If anyone here has some good room software, I'd be ever grateful if you could run my room dimensions through it to see what's going on?
Semi-Modest Home Theater from Australia
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Well.. my frustrations continue... tried several placement suggestions for my subs, and also moved my seating area forward about 3 feet... to no avail. Any closer to the screen and I'll have more of the room behind me that in front, and the screen will be too big to enjoy the movie.
My next frustration is the vibrating floor. It's REALLY annoying. ie: listening to a dance track (which I do a lot of, being a DJ), I hear (well only the top end coz I have no low end, remember) the kick drum, then a few milliseconds later, I feel the vibrations under the seat.
As I said, really annoying. Our place is on bearers and joists. Under the carpet is a layer of particle board.
Currently my subs sit on the floor, with no spikes or feet. The new subs arrive on Monday and will have spikes. Will this remove some of the transfer of vibration into the floor I wonder?
My next frustration is the vibrating floor. It's REALLY annoying. ie: listening to a dance track (which I do a lot of, being a DJ), I hear (well only the top end coz I have no low end, remember) the kick drum, then a few milliseconds later, I feel the vibrations under the seat.
As I said, really annoying. Our place is on bearers and joists. Under the carpet is a layer of particle board.
Currently my subs sit on the floor, with no spikes or feet. The new subs arrive on Monday and will have spikes. Will this remove some of the transfer of vibration into the floor I wonder?
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8,360 Posts
Sorry to hear nothings working for you!
Probably best to wait until the new subs arrive at this stage..
Spikes on a sub will generally help to give a cleaner/tighter bass, but I don't think it's going to help your extreme null at the listening position..
My guess would be that the particle board flooring is maybe causing a problem..That's not a normal flooring board..
That being the case, you may need to put something solid under the subs, like a concrete slab or similar..
I finished up putting a sand filled box under my sub., with a layer of that sheet packing plastic/ foam on top (can't remember the correct name for it) before I could get a smooth extension to the lower frequencies..with minimum peaks and dips..
I hope the new subs. work out better for you..
Probably best to wait until the new subs arrive at this stage..
Spikes on a sub will generally help to give a cleaner/tighter bass, but I don't think it's going to help your extreme null at the listening position..
My guess would be that the particle board flooring is maybe causing a problem..That's not a normal flooring board..
That being the case, you may need to put something solid under the subs, like a concrete slab or similar..
I finished up putting a sand filled box under my sub., with a layer of that sheet packing plastic/ foam on top (can't remember the correct name for it) before I could get a smooth extension to the lower frequencies..with minimum peaks and dips..
I hope the new subs. work out better for you..
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Prof.
Many thanks mate. Thats interesting about the particle board. I am wondering if it's vibration may actually be interacting with the low frequency sound waves in the room, contributing to the null(s) at the seating position? I mean if a large flat moving mass (the floor) is vibrating at the same frequency as the sound waves, could it not be acting as a large speaker, cancelling out the original sound from the subwoofers? Seems extreme, but it would kinda explain my room issues.
I ran the dimensions through a couple of room mode calculators prior to building the house and had a fairly even spread of frequencies, with nothing major to worry about.
I have some cement pavers coming next week, I'll try sticking the new subs on spikes on top of those. I may even try some of the foam, though I am not totally sure which kind you mean? The white styrofoam?
Many thanks mate. Thats interesting about the particle board. I am wondering if it's vibration may actually be interacting with the low frequency sound waves in the room, contributing to the null(s) at the seating position? I mean if a large flat moving mass (the floor) is vibrating at the same frequency as the sound waves, could it not be acting as a large speaker, cancelling out the original sound from the subwoofers? Seems extreme, but it would kinda explain my room issues.
I ran the dimensions through a couple of room mode calculators prior to building the house and had a fairly even spread of frequencies, with nothing major to worry about.
I have some cement pavers coming next week, I'll try sticking the new subs on spikes on top of those. I may even try some of the foam, though I am not totally sure which kind you mean? The white styrofoam?
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8,360 Posts
It's quite possible..The natural resonance of particleboard would be different than normal floor boards..
Anything that resonates in harmony with low frequencies, will have a cancelling affect..
No..It's the flexible plasticy foam sheet material that a lot of AV gear comes wrapped in..It's not very thick but it's quite spongey..
I think it's called Exo Foam!.or something like that..
Joined
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61 Posts
New subs have arrived.
Am yet to swap the fans on the Behringer, but for testing purposes, it won't matter. Be interesting to see if I need the ART CleanBox for my amp.. since my amp has RCA's, I have a feeling it may boost that input by the 12dB as required automatically.
Also, my JVC HD950/RS25 Projector was posted today, so should arrive tomorrow. Just waiting on the ceiling mount for that.
Oh, I also ordered some insulation material to use in my bass traps. It's Bradfords Ultratel 2" panels. Cost an arm and a leg, but will be worth it
I'll post some pics of the subs later today.
So things left to do:
- screw Shiva's into their boxes
- fan-mod my Behringer amp
- test to see if I need cleanbox
- mount surrounds and rears on walls
- build frames for my bass traps
- install bass traps
- hang projection screen on wall (leaning against wall atm)
- hook up all the gear
- mount projector & calibrate
gah,... still so much to do! And I have a massive lack of spare time!
Oh well.. slowly but surely!
Am yet to swap the fans on the Behringer, but for testing purposes, it won't matter. Be interesting to see if I need the ART CleanBox for my amp.. since my amp has RCA's, I have a feeling it may boost that input by the 12dB as required automatically.
Also, my JVC HD950/RS25 Projector was posted today, so should arrive tomorrow. Just waiting on the ceiling mount for that.
Oh, I also ordered some insulation material to use in my bass traps. It's Bradfords Ultratel 2" panels. Cost an arm and a leg, but will be worth it
I'll post some pics of the subs later today.
So things left to do:
- screw Shiva's into their boxes
- fan-mod my Behringer amp
- test to see if I need cleanbox
- mount surrounds and rears on walls
- build frames for my bass traps
- install bass traps
- hang projection screen on wall (leaning against wall atm)
- hook up all the gear
- mount projector & calibrate
gah,... still so much to do! And I have a massive lack of spare time!
Oh well.. slowly but surely!
Joined
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61 Posts
Thanks for the tip Mika. Has anyone else here used the Samson?
Checking it out now.
Checking it out now.
Joined
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61 Posts
Just fired up the Behringer EPX2000. Seems that I DO need a booster box of some sort. Coz the signal is too soft.
Question: Is it detrimental to set the sub output on my receiver to +10dB for now, until I get the Samson box?
Cheers.
Question: Is it detrimental to set the sub output on my receiver to +10dB for now, until I get the Samson box?
Cheers.
Joined
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61 Posts
Hey all.
Some more photos
My beautiful new subs which were hand made by Direct Home Theatre in Adelaide, who is on these forums as 'Crabra'. They look, and sound great. Will be ironing out some room mode issues in the coming weeks as my Ultratel arrives tomorrow
There's a pic of what happened to one of my down-lights after listening to some music with the subs on.. need to put this one back in its socket... and work out how to avoid such things happening again!
A pic of my surround speaker wall mounts, before I bolted on the actual shelving plate.
There's a shot of all my cables for the 4 surround speakers + 2 outdoor speakers for zone 2. thick cable. Actually really difficult to fit the whole lot into the speaker terminals on both the Yamaha Receiver and the speakers.
There's a pic of the screen, finally up on the wall.
You can see my shiny new JVC D-ILA HD950 Projector being fired from its temporary location. I have a guy coming over this afternoon to look at mounting it for me as I'm a bit apprehensive of doing it myself since it's going to be placed literally vertically up from where it is now... ie: above our heads!
And finally, I have some photos taken of WallE. I took these to compare the brightness to Hihjinx's photos. Mind you these are with the bulb on high and lens fully open. Personally I wouldn't want them any darker. However, looking at my photos, they look TOO bright, but it's not like that in person. It's taken me a few days to get used to the image produced by the projector. At first I was a bit worried that my brightness wasn't enough. But last night's viewing session confirmed for me that it was good enough.. and finally I am starting to appreciate just how amazing this projector is - the colours, the detail, the black level, the smoothness (film-like appearance). Also loving having such a big screen. I feel completely immersed. At the moment the lounge is about 4.4m back from the screen. I'd like to be a little closer, but acoustics (bass) are keeping me from moving forward until such time that I fix the room modes using bass traps.
Note that all these pics were taken with the vertical shift adjusted so that the image touched the bottom of my screen... rather than having black bars at the top and bottom, I only have one big one at the top. Thinking of making a mask to sit up there when watching 2.35:1 films. However I want to see how the room goes once I black out my 3 small windows with curtains.
Other stuff happening:
Gonna wire up my surround speakers today, and move all my components into position. Got the AV guy coming over today to check out what needs to be done with the projector mounting. Hopefully that is done this week. Today I took in my Behringer amp to the local electronics guy, who is going to swap the fans for the quieter ones. Hopefully that happens this week also. I have ordered a Samson S-Convert box which will boost the sub output of my receiver by 12dB, bringing it in to line with the Behringer's inputs. As I mentioned earlier, my Bradford Ultratel insulation arrives tomorrow. Enough to do all 4 corners from floor to ceiling at 6 inches thick, and enough to make 6 more 4" panels for reflection points etc.
So it's all coming along. I'd say by this time next week we'll be able to use the room properly. Only the acoustic panels won't be finished.
Enjoy
Some more photos
My beautiful new subs which were hand made by Direct Home Theatre in Adelaide, who is on these forums as 'Crabra'. They look, and sound great. Will be ironing out some room mode issues in the coming weeks as my Ultratel arrives tomorrow
There's a pic of what happened to one of my down-lights after listening to some music with the subs on.. need to put this one back in its socket... and work out how to avoid such things happening again!
A pic of my surround speaker wall mounts, before I bolted on the actual shelving plate.
There's a shot of all my cables for the 4 surround speakers + 2 outdoor speakers for zone 2. thick cable. Actually really difficult to fit the whole lot into the speaker terminals on both the Yamaha Receiver and the speakers.
There's a pic of the screen, finally up on the wall.
You can see my shiny new JVC D-ILA HD950 Projector being fired from its temporary location. I have a guy coming over this afternoon to look at mounting it for me as I'm a bit apprehensive of doing it myself since it's going to be placed literally vertically up from where it is now... ie: above our heads!
And finally, I have some photos taken of WallE. I took these to compare the brightness to Hihjinx's photos. Mind you these are with the bulb on high and lens fully open. Personally I wouldn't want them any darker. However, looking at my photos, they look TOO bright, but it's not like that in person. It's taken me a few days to get used to the image produced by the projector. At first I was a bit worried that my brightness wasn't enough. But last night's viewing session confirmed for me that it was good enough.. and finally I am starting to appreciate just how amazing this projector is - the colours, the detail, the black level, the smoothness (film-like appearance). Also loving having such a big screen. I feel completely immersed. At the moment the lounge is about 4.4m back from the screen. I'd like to be a little closer, but acoustics (bass) are keeping me from moving forward until such time that I fix the room modes using bass traps.
Note that all these pics were taken with the vertical shift adjusted so that the image touched the bottom of my screen... rather than having black bars at the top and bottom, I only have one big one at the top. Thinking of making a mask to sit up there when watching 2.35:1 films. However I want to see how the room goes once I black out my 3 small windows with curtains.
Other stuff happening:
Gonna wire up my surround speakers today, and move all my components into position. Got the AV guy coming over today to check out what needs to be done with the projector mounting. Hopefully that is done this week. Today I took in my Behringer amp to the local electronics guy, who is going to swap the fans for the quieter ones. Hopefully that happens this week also. I have ordered a Samson S-Convert box which will boost the sub output of my receiver by 12dB, bringing it in to line with the Behringer's inputs. As I mentioned earlier, my Bradford Ultratel insulation arrives tomorrow. Enough to do all 4 corners from floor to ceiling at 6 inches thick, and enough to make 6 more 4" panels for reflection points etc.
So it's all coming along. I'd say by this time next week we'll be able to use the room properly. Only the acoustic panels won't be finished.
Enjoy
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Sadly I don't have any other place to put them My subs take up a fair bit of space, and then my entertainment unit that is being built is 2.2m wide. So I'm rather space limited
I will, however, be bringing the mains out from the back wall a bit, as I'll be adding corner traps to the corners which will push them out a bit. I'll also be adding 1st reflection point absorbers to the side walls, which should help with the sound bouncing off the walls!
My subs take up a fair bit of space, and then my entertainment unit that is being built is 2.2m wide. So I'm rather space limited I will, however, be bringing the mains out from the back wall a bit, as I'll be adding corner traps to the corners which will push them out a bit. I'll also be adding 1st reflection point absorbers to the side walls, which should help with the sound bouncing off the walls!
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Definitely something I would think about yeah.. I understand why you want to do this too.. to attach the sound to the sides of the screen...
the only annoying thing would be that the sound stage would dip in the centre for my centre channel, which will sit at the top of my entertainment unit, directly below the screen..... do you think this may create a bit of an issue with such a difference between the main and centre tweeters?
the only annoying thing would be that the sound stage would dip in the centre for my centre channel, which will sit at the top of my entertainment unit, directly below the screen..... do you think this may create a bit of an issue with such a difference between the main and centre tweeters?
I recommended this awhile ago to good friend's of mine, the mains and center channel all rest on the same cabinet plane with the center deciding the height below the screen. (i.e. imagine ur mains floorstanding and ur center laying on the carpet between them, now raise the whole 3 up in unison until the center meets the bottom of ur screen)
The loudspeakers are Meridian DSP 5500 firing toward a deep 3 tiered seating arrangement, 3 seats wide ...the sound is always locked to the screen. The driver configuration on the Meridian center channel is such that the tweeter and mid-range are more vertical than horizontal even though the speaker rest's on it's side.
The diagram u posted shows the Energy center to be a MTM/Dappolito design which isn't the best way towards accuracy when laying on it's side...for ur own experiment stand the center speaker upright and hear exactly I'm talking about.
The loudspeakers are Meridian DSP 5500 firing toward a deep 3 tiered seating arrangement, 3 seats wide ...the sound is always locked to the screen. The driver configuration on the Meridian center channel is such that the tweeter and mid-range are more vertical than horizontal even though the speaker rest's on it's side.
The diagram u posted shows the Energy center to be a MTM/Dappolito design which isn't the best way towards accuracy when laying on it's side...for ur own experiment stand the center speaker upright and hear exactly I'm talking about.
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OK some more pics... I actually took these a week ago. So I'll post these, then post some more from today in another post:
Got the rears and surround speakers mounted!
And started on the first two bass traps, these ones are just under 8 feet tall and will be placed in the front corners of the room. The Bradfords Ultratel was really fun to work with. For anyone considering doing the same, just be careful to wear gloves and goggles/glasses. The glass fibres are kinda prickly if you touch them on the wrong angle (random), and I can't imaging breathing in the loose fibres can be good for you - though they stick together really well, it's just when you use a saw to cut the sheets that some loose bits fly around... oh, and they smell kinda bad, but only if you sniff right next to them.. The traps were actually really easy to make. We just made a typical frame and screwed the sides on, then used L brackets for extra strength. I used another bit of wood at the back to hold the material in place and give some rigidity, and then used some smaller L brackets on the front to hold the material in place. Covered them with black, basic cotton material which is breathable enough to let sound pass through. Just got the material from my local fabrics/sewing shop (like a mini spotlight). The back is covered in a really open weave material that is very basic and very cheap ($1 a meter).
More pics coming. I have since covered the traps with black material and placed them in the corners, and also ceiling mounted the projector and placed my mains on to of my subs.
Scottie
Got the rears and surround speakers mounted!
And started on the first two bass traps, these ones are just under 8 feet tall and will be placed in the front corners of the room. The Bradfords Ultratel was really fun to work with. For anyone considering doing the same, just be careful to wear gloves and goggles/glasses. The glass fibres are kinda prickly if you touch them on the wrong angle (random), and I can't imaging breathing in the loose fibres can be good for you - though they stick together really well, it's just when you use a saw to cut the sheets that some loose bits fly around... oh, and they smell kinda bad, but only if you sniff right next to them.. The traps were actually really easy to make. We just made a typical frame and screwed the sides on, then used L brackets for extra strength. I used another bit of wood at the back to hold the material in place and give some rigidity, and then used some smaller L brackets on the front to hold the material in place. Covered them with black, basic cotton material which is breathable enough to let sound pass through. Just got the material from my local fabrics/sewing shop (like a mini spotlight). The back is covered in a really open weave material that is very basic and very cheap ($1 a meter).
More pics coming. I have since covered the traps with black material and placed them in the corners, and also ceiling mounted the projector and placed my mains on to of my subs.
Scottie
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