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Discussion Starter #22
AJ,
The AVR-146 arrived! :laugh2:
Now waiting on the delivery of Monoprice Y-connectors to be able to connect it all together.

a) Performed initial testing to ensure the unit works properly (it does), played around a bit with Logic 7 and performed a factory settings reset to start from a known condition.
b) Downloaded, printed, and highlighted the manual (old school, sorry).
- Noted the 6-Channel analog inputs by-pass all digital processing (no surprise).
c) Still getting spun up on how to adjust:
channel level (default is 0.0db),
speaker size (default is small),
x-over freq (default is 100Hz), and
time delay (default is 10ft).
- It is a little more involved because there is no OEM remote (using a Harmony 880).

Thinking through how to integrate volume control for the two amps to keep the surround and mains in the proper balance.
- AVR-146 does not have a pre-amp output/main amp input like the HK 3485.

Any ideas on the above, please chime in.
 

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You shouldn't have to adjust anything yet, those settings are fine for now. The remote is handy for setting the level of the surrounds while listening from seat. Once you set the volume level on 146 (while listening with Logic7)), the 3485 will be you normal volume control. Turning it up/down will adjust the 146 accordingly.
The surrounds will be connected to 146 rear speaker terminals. You can use the CD input as "source", usually default in menu is analog.
Where are the Wharfdales?
 

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Discussion Starter #24
You shouldn't have to adjust anything yet, those settings are fine for now. The remote is handy for setting the level of the surrounds while listening from seat.
Once you set the volume level on 146 (while listening with Logic7), the 3485 will be you normal volume control. Turning it up/down will adjust the 146 accordingly.
The surrounds will be connected to 146 rear speaker terminals. You can use the CD input as "source", usually default in menu is analog.
Where are the Wharfdales?
AJ,
Thanks for the info, CD source/analog/surround outputs is the plan.
The Wharfdales have not been moved yet.

The plan is to place them on some 28" stands I already own, one on each side of the listening couch.

IIRC you mentioned pointing them up towards the ceiling, I do not know if that will be possible.
If it is not, what is the recommended orientation; pointed towards the MLP, pointed to the front of the room, etc.
 

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There is no other recommendation other than upwards. You could try different orientations, perhaps even pointed directly away (yes, firing into sidewall). The idea is to make them unlocalizable. The Logic7 processing does this to a large extent, further diffusion by having a lot of reflected energy is desired.
Remember, you don't want to hear them. Only way to know they were on, is turn off.
It's to give the front channels a sense of more envelopment/ immersion, something entirely impossible with 2ch stereo frontal soundfields (synopsis here if interested)

cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #26
There is no other recommendation other than upwards. You could try different orientations, perhaps even pointed directly away (yes, firing into sidewall). The idea is to make them unlocalizable. The Logic7 processing does this to a large extent, further diffusion by having a lot of reflected energy is desired.
Remember, you don't want to hear them. Only way to know they were on, is turn off.
It's to give the front channels a sense of more envelopment/ immersion, something entirely impossible with 2ch stereo frontal soundfields (synopsis here if interested)

cheers
AJ,
Would something like Pioneer SP-T22A-LRs be a better option if pointing the Wharf 10.1s upward is not feasible?
- They are available on Fleabay for a little more than $100.

Connected the system up this AM with the Wharfs pointing to rear of room (90 deg away from MLP) before going to work, will test/adjust this evening after work.
 

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Yes, try that with the Wharfdales first before considering new speakers. The "quality" of the surrounds is largely immaterial here, as long as they don't distort, etc.
You just want to avoid any leading edge waveforms (which would give direction cues), so indirect/more diffuse is helpful, the idea is to make as unlocalizable as possible.
Pointing away should be good.

cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Yes, try that with the Wharfdales first before considering new speakers. The "quality" of the surrounds is largely immaterial here, as long as they don't distort, etc.
You just want to avoid any leading edge waveforms (which would give direction cues), so indirect/more diffuse is helpful, the idea is to make as unlocalizable as possible.
Pointing away should be good.

cheers
BTW, thanks for your extensive patience and advice!
It is greatly appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
Time to report on the results of adding a HK Logic7 AVR to the 2-Channel system.

In short, Logic7 is VERY IMPRESSIVE. My musically talented wife (better ears/perfect pitch) and I (not so much) have just finished testing the various settings to best dial in the Logic7 "surrounds" and then listened to a wide variety of music for over 4 hours. Sonic bliss IMHO.
- The sound stage is wider than the mains or room edges, but does not have the "fakey" sound of hall, club, or stadium DSPs I have tried in the past on other systems.
We both much prefered the sound with the Logic7 engaged.

Settings we decided on are as follows:
LOGIC7 SPEAKER PLACEMENT. L7 surrounds on speaker stands, next to the side walls toed in toward the MLP about 10 degrees, which still points them well wide of the couch ends (i.e. not at MLP). With the mains ~20 deg to the R/L of center, the L7 surrounds are ~40 deg to the R/L and ~4 feet forward of the mains.
- From the same position, we tried pointing the L7 surrounds straight back at the back wall and also toed out away from MLP, 10 degrees into the side wall, neither of these worked as well.

VOLUME. HK 146 AVR (Logic7 speakers) is set at 10dB above the HK 3485 (L/R main speakers). For example, with the HK 3485 at -35dB, the HK 146 is set to -25dB (i.e. 10 dB more). Please keep in mind the L7 circuitry/algorithim already lowers the surround volume substantially in relation to the set volume on the AVR.
- I had expected to set and forget the Logic7 volume as AJ suggested, since the HK 3485 controls the preamp out volume to everything; the subs, the mains, and L7 surrounds. However, since the remote controls both devices in tandem, this was impractical and the volumes adjust up/down together unless controled manually (not going to happen).
- At a static -5dB or above volume setting the surrounds localized (not good) and if set at nearly the same volume as the 3485 (i.e. both units at -30dB) the desired effect was lost. The 10 dB delta seemed to work best.

SPEAKER DELAY: With main speakers on HK 146 at the default 10' distance (which is close to actual room value), the surrounds are set to 5' (which is also close to actual room value).
- Experimented with both much closer (i.e. 1' or a lot later signal) and much farther settings (i.e. 20' or a lot earlier signal). Both of these values sounded off.

Hope this report may help anyone else interested in this inexpensive 2-Channel enhancement option.
Cheers,
XEagleDriver

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk
 

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The room would be a very cool office to work in. The amount of materials are fair enough but could give you a great ambiance to hear relaxing and groovy sounds inside. Overall, the idea is amazing!
 

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In short, Logic7 is VERY IMPRESSIVE. My musically talented wife (better ears/perfect pitch) and I (not so much) have just finished testing the various settings to best dial in the Logic7 "surrounds" and then listened to a wide variety of music for over 4 hours. Sonic bliss IMHO.
- The sound stage is wider than the mains or room edges, but does not have the "fakey" sound of hall, club, or stadium DSPs I have tried in the past on other systems.
We both much prefered the sound with the Logic7 engaged.
This tells me you've done it correctly. The best part about Dr Greisingers handiwork (present in countless concert halls around the world), is you can't hear it! :)
Enjoy.

cheers,
 
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