[lcaillo]

Re: Speak Wires, Does it matter?

Uh . . . . . nah . . . . . forget the audio dealer, don't waste your time, get over to Home Depot or even Radio Shack and buy the least expensive but heavier gauge wire and be done with it.
This issue has been beaten to death over the years and there are STILL some people who insist they can detect a subtle difference in the quality of sound. The truth is, those are the people with a waxy build-up on their tympanic membranes and they've NEVER even had a full spectrum audiology test done by a certified ENT specialist.

The matter has been beaten to death because people continue to make posts like this one. The first sentence is your opinion, and in my view, is largely correct. Next however, your comments do nothing to enhance nor inform the discussion. The fact that many people have never had an audiological eval has nothing at all to do with the matter, nor does whether they might have wax in their ears. This is at best a vieled insult of those who might have a different experience than you.

While it is clear that there is very little, if any difference in most speaker wires audible performance, the matter is far from settled regarding what characteristics of a cable affect the sound, and how they might do so. Even the most ardent "anti" would not argue that wires do not have to be of some minimal diameter and quality of construction for significant lengths. The failure of the audio community, IMO, is that a systematic and scientific study of what parameters affect sound in what manner has never been performed. Further, how these effects interact with expectation bias and placebo effects has had little study. Human perception is complex and there are subtle aspects of both ability and psychoacoustics that have not been studied in a systematic manner. The arrogance and condescention of the anti-cable side combined with the emotionally dominated responses from the other side have often made for pointless blather instead of intelligent discussion. Posts like the one above will do nothing but propogate that, and IMO, HTS is not the place for it.

There is good reason to respect the choice of some to invest in cables that they feel improve the sound of their system. There is better reason to investigate why they feel that they experience a difference and understand where actual differences give way to psychological effect. To argue that one or the other is completely dominant or more relevant to individual experience is simply not recogizing the facts. Even if it is completely a matter of faith, both sides should be respectful and attempt to understand the other perspective. These matters have been debated for centuries at much more sophisticated levels. This "naive cables are all the same"/"I hear a big difference debate" deserves much more intelligent discussion than saying people have wax in their ears. If that is the best you can do, take it to Usenet or AVS, please.

Nihil est in intellectu quod non fuerit in sensu...Locke

 

[lcaillo]

Only guage matters, but be careful of some unknown brand wires they turn green.

I once bough a big spool of speaker wire from a thrift store, I cut it and hooked it up to the stereo and the next day it was green. :hissyfit:

If "only guage matters" why is green a problem? Green is a nice color, and with that clear dielectric, I think it is pretty cool.

More than gauge does matter. Companies like MIT have made a lot of money on the fact that more matters. Whether their kind of tinkering with the parameters affecting signal transfer is worthwhile is another matter for one to consider. You won't find any of their cables in my system, but you won't see me argue that they don't affect the sound, either. The degree to which it is desirable, practical, or cost effective to consider other factors besides size is what is debatable. For me, it is not a high priority. For others it is so. I would like to see more discussion and testing regarding exactly how various parameters, including size, affect the sound. IME, it is likely that other parameters may have a greater effect on sound quality than gauge for typical lengths used for speakers. Those differences may or many not be desirable, however.



bhjazz,

I agree, to a point. There is certainly much that we don't know that we don't know. My issue with most obectivists is that they make assumptions about the completeness of our understanding. My problem with subectivists is that they make assumptions about the validity of their own perception and how it relates to reality and to the perception of others. Both sides are right in their proper context, to a degree, and when they meet and get into the pointless debates and slinging one-liners, both are wrong beyond the limited scope of their perspective. You have to frame these debates carefully or they get out of control. Context is VERY important. The thing to remember is that as long as we are careful about the context of our comments, provide a basis for statements of fact, and identify clearly and respect statements of opinion, we can have a civil discussion that informs and perhaps even advances knowledge on the matter. What we can do as moderators is steer the debate in the right direction, away from polarizing posts and insults and toward getting to better understanding.


I may be a little snake-bit by participation on other forums, so forgive me if my tolerance for "it is/it isn't" debates gets a little weak. We just do not need that here. We can do much better. We are at the same time able to have advertising from companies like Transparent and Neptune, while having extensive discussions about using Monoprice and Behrenger. We recognize that different people have different priorities and perceptions. I like it that way and that is what makes HTS a safe place to post and discuss one's ideas. The bottom line is that there are a range of equally valid and useful perspectives. Or, as it has been said better in the past..."the crux of the buiscuit is the apostrophe."

Informed debate is great. Polarizing and insulting commentary is pointless and harmful.

 

[lcaillo]

I have a few questions regarding your post to facilitate more understanding.

What is Damping Ratio?

Why is the damping ratio important?

Can you show a graph that correlates improved response with increased damping?

Why do you say lower impedance loads are easier to drive when the conventional view says they are harder to drive?

Would the increased cost of speaker wire be more effectively use on room treatments?

I think a few things are getting mixed up here. I suspect he is thinking of Damping Factor, which is the ability of the amp to damp back EMF from the drivers. This is generally better in amps with lower output impedance. It is like braking a motor with a short.

I think he was also talking about reducing impedance in the wires, not in the load. You can affect frequency response with capacitance and inductance in the wires, and resistance causes losses overall. The Kimber wires, for instance (IIRC), have low inductance but higher capacitance than most, leading to a bit of a high frequency roll-off. A twisted pair like you would have in Cat5 ethernet cable would reduce the inductance as well. Most of this has so little effect at the distances and frequencies that we are talking about that it makes a small difference at best.

I agree, room treatments, or even just moving the listening position or speaker location a small amount will make far more difference in most cases.