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What is the difference between RTA and Spectrum Analysis? In a sense, the graphs are similar yet different. I guess more to the point is, what uses would RTA have over spectrum analysis and vise versa?
Spectrum analyzers are normally associated with an examination of your spectrum and it's distortion products.

With REW, there are really three ways to use it. You can play an internally generated Periodic White noise and examine the spectrum (the RTA requires Periodic Pink noise), or you can play an internally generated Sine Wave and examine the THD and THD+N, or you can simply examine the spectrum with no signal at all.

The latter is interesting because it lets you examine the room for noise energy that you may not be aware of.

Below is a pic of my office with the Spectrum analyzer running with no signal being generated.

I am using an FFT length of 65536, with an averaging of 8, and using a Hann window (standard setup).

Everything is set up as if I am going to do a measure and all the levels are set to go, but instead I simply start the Spectrum analyzer and listen to the room.

You can see my furnace is introducing some low frequency noise. If I shut it off, the noise is eliminated.

You can see I have the typical poor PC computer 60Hz hum and its related harmonics at 120Hz, 180Hz, 220Hz etc.

You can also see (amazingly), my NTSC RPTV CRT's horizontal oscillator frequency of 15.750Khz present in the room.

The TV is several rooms away and happened to be turned on, but the oscillator noise is present in my office (not that I can hear it, but there it is). Shut the TV off and it goes away.

The Spectrum analyzer can tell you a lot about your room and system before you even do a measure.

Sometimes you'll see a waterfall with a strange signal that rings out for many hundred of milliseconds. If you looked at the spectrum, you might see the source, rather than incorrectly deciding it comes from a modal resonance.... My furnace is a case in point on that issue.

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You can certainly play a Sine Wave and look at the distortion products and distortion + noise results.
Here's a pic of a 1000Hz fundamental and its associated harmonics. REW gives % THD and % THD+N readouts of the fundamental plus all harmonics..

Personally, I feel it's wise to do a 1KHz simple loopback Spectrum with THD and THD+N reading of your soundcard and PC alone to establish a baseline for yourself. Then add in the system and see how much greater it is.

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The RTA as you've seen is quite useful. Here's a response measure and then a quick RTA. Once this is running, I can then move the microphone around to see what different listening positions look like (all in real time). It is revealing to see the difference a few feet make when you move the mic.

The RTA also allows you to change filters and watch the RTA screen for the real time changes. It's also really useful to adjust phase on a subwoofer for the best crossover response. You simply watch the RTA screen as you dial the phase control. A lot better than taking a bunch of measures to accomplish this task.

Here's a pic of RTA and a response measurement on the same screen (measurements are selectable to be placed on the RTA screen for comparison).
I was sure not to move the mic when I took the measure and then started the RTA. :)

REW RTA


Then there's a feature that you may have missed that is rather cool.

Instead of using a soundcard calibration file, you can use a loopback cable on the left channel and use that as the soundcard calibration.

One of the things this new reference allows is speaker distance readout (called System Delay feature).

I can hook up a single speaker at a time and do a full range sweep and REW will tell you the distance the microphone is from the speaker tested (in msec, meters, and feet). It doesn't really apply to subwoofers given the low bandwidth of a sub, but it is quite useful for the other five or six speakers in your system. You would of course require a full range microphone such as an ECM8000 or Galaxy CM-140 to use this feature.
This is useful if you think that your simple measuring tape method to establish speaker delay trim values for your receiver isn't that accurate.

I have tested this feature and it does seem to jive with my measuring tape. That's fine, but systems may have strange delays in them that you can't account for with a tape measure. It's a useful feature.

Below is the results from a single mains speaker in my office that is exactly as indicated by REW at 10.8 feet away from the microphone.
I did a simple sweep up to 20KHz and REW shows the system delay. I could easily substitute any center or rear speaker by moving the speaker cable around and establish the acoustic distance for every speaker in my system. Now that's cool.....

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brucek
 

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Does the loopback "calibration" have any Left/Right channel difference adjustments?
hehehe, funny you should ask. John and I discussed this very point, and in the next version, this will automatically be taken care of (with an AGC type of adjustment of the left channel).

You're point is well taken. If you have a mic preamp with level adjust (as you do and anyone with an ECM and peramp would have), there's no problem because you can balance the right channel input against the looped back left channel calibrate input signal. If you have a fixed level meter (such as the RS meter or Galaxy), you wouldn't have this level capability.

The left channel calibrate can tolerate more of a swing than the right channel, by its nature it will have minimal noise to deal with. I would be careful not to clip it though. Simply set the input level using the left channel and then use your preamp adjust to balance them.

In the case of a RS meter or Galaxy, you could indeed use the Windows Master volume balance control if you got into trouble.

brucek
 

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Just to clarify, I would assume that means that I'd need to get splitters to split both Line In and Line Out 1/8" plugs
I don't really understand. To run REW you always required splitters at the line-in and line-out plugs on the soundcard, so as to break out the left and right channels. One of those channels was always left unused in the past.

You now have the option to not use a soundcard calibration file, by connecting that unused left channel of the line-in and line-out with a cable.

Like this:



The left channel takes care of the soundcard calibration. It also is a time reference to compare the timing difference between the two channels, so that time can be translated into distance. When you run a measure sweep of any single speaker (not a sub) it will tell you how far away the microphone is from the speaker. This is the same distance information you require for distance to enter into your receiver.

I also tested this feature by looping the right channel through a BFD to determine its delay that we always assume is 1 foot of distance. Well, it's 1 foot of distance...

brucek
 

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When using the RTA, the measurment is about 20dB lower than the 75dB reference level. This makes it very difficult to set the EQ parameters.
By the way, I was using PMI's 5.1 test kit (DVD) as the test signal
The first thing you want to do is not use that DVD and start using the REW Signal Generators Periodic Pink Noise (Pink PN) - just select the Generator and Pink PN and hit play. This then allows you to use the Rectangular Window mode in RTA. Rectangular windows give the best frequency resolution, but can only be used when the signal being analysed is periodic within the FFT length. The Periodic Pink noise is to be used with RTA (and Periodic White noise is used with the Spectrum Analyzer).

Don't worry about actual dB levels when using an RTA. It's not important. I usually use dBFS (~-70 to -10), but if you like dB, then simply set a +/-30dB swing above and below the RTA center point. In other words, if the RTA signal was at 55dB on the screen, then an appropriate vertical scale would be 25dB-85dB.

Ensure your Input RMS level on the RTA page is showing less than clip.

brucek
 

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you would recommend using the REW Signal Generator to send test signals to the receiver's multi-channel inputs, right?
Yes, the multi-channel input would allow the testing of each speaker individually. To test bass management and crossover between sub and mains, use the AUX or CD input set to stereo.

I am using the Radio Shack SPL meter
Limit the use of the Radio Shack meter to 3KHz....

brucek
 

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1) What's the best way to deal with the big dips?
Speaker or listening position placement ..

2) Audyssey usually do not process the signals coming from the multi-channel inputs, right?
Yeah, I think that is true. Generally though, REW is used for aiding you in getting the best speaker placement (if you are indeed able to move them somewhat), and also for subwoofer equalization.

Audyssey would be used once the speakers are in their best positions. Then you would use REW to help with the subwoofer equalization and mains integration (through the CD or AUX port).

Which one do you think is the better solution to solve the room acoustical problems.
Treating a room, combined with proper speaker positioning, and then some subwoofer equalization to reduce modal resonance is your best bet.

brucek
 
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