Subs only no EQ but different placements

4626 Views 56 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Moonfly, Mar 15, 2010

gperkins_1973

Discussion Starter · Mar 10, 2010

3

Hi there,

I have had my subs built for a while now and keep playing with their placement (what little I have) and want to start again but need your advice on what is the best of the two to start off with.

The first on is facing the speakers with no Audyssey or BFD

The second is facing the wall about 400mm away with no Audyssey or BFD.

The third is both together.

I am thinking the second is the best as I don't have that dip between 55 and 95hz so I would only have to apply a few cuts but it would be good to get your much more professional opinions please before I carry on further. Also there looks like a lot more info in the second one.

cheers

Graham

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gperkins_1973

Discussion Starter · #2 · Mar 10, 2010

2

Hi there,

I have applied some BFD filters so no boosting at all.

The first is sub only with BFD facing the wall.

Second is sub and speakers with BFD facing the wall.

When I did it previoulsy with the subs facing the speakers I run Audyssey before I applied the filters and it introduced a big dip at 33hz but there wasn't really a dip there before.

cheers

Graham

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gperkins_1973

Discussion Starter · #3 · Mar 10, 2010

2

Guys,

A little bit of tweaking and this is the best I can get without Audyssey.

First is without smoothing and the second is with smoothing.

cheers

Graham

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Wayne A. Pflughaupt

· #4 · Mar 10, 2010

Not sure why you're worried about not boosting with the EQ, but all your equalized graphs look great. :T

Regards,
Wayne

gperkins_1973

Discussion Starter · #5 · Mar 10, 2010

Thanks Wayne,

When I ran Audyssey I had the big dip at 33hz which I had to boost 8db to get back flat.

I will see how it sounds with them facing towards the wall for a bit. I will re run Audyssey again but what is the best way to do it Audyssey first or last.

cheers

Graham

Nuance

· #6 · Mar 11, 2010

gperkins_1973 said:
Thanks Wayne,

When I ran Audyssey I had the big dip at 33hz which I had to boost 8db to get back flat.

I will see how it sounds with them facing towards the wall for a bit. I will re run Audyssey again but what is the best way to do it Audyssey first or last.

cheers

Graham

You'll get mixed answers concerning that question. My preference is to use it only if you need it after applying PEQ using the BFD. Of course, I am a firm believer in not using any EQ above the Schroeder Frequency, so Audyssey is a no no for me. I never liked what it did above that point anyway (sound wise). YMMV.

You response looks very good, just like Wayne said. Enjoy!

gperkins_1973

Discussion Starter · #7 · Mar 11, 2010

One of the main reasons for trying them facing the wall is that there seemed to be a nice gain in the upper sub bass frequenies and I thought that would help with music. Obviously I would have to make some cuts but there should be a bit more than with facing the speakers.

The only downfall is that I cannot see the drivers going in and out so if I get a track with high excursion I will have to watch out.

I think the 33hz dip is coming from the right sub even though when they are together there is a very slight dip there and when Audyssey is ran it seems to make it much worse in that area.

cheers

Graham

glaufman

· #8 · Mar 11, 2010

Am I the only one that's more concerned about the peak around 160Hz?

gperkins_1973

Discussion Starter · #9 · Mar 11, 2010

That's something I saw last night. That is more visible when they are facing the wall. I can eq it out when they are facing the speakers easy so its smooth when I do the subs and speakers together but I cannot get rid of it when they are facing the wall. I may have to go back to how they were before but if anyone has some advice I would really appreciate it.

cheers

Graham

glaufman

· #10 · Mar 11, 2010

What's your crossover? It look like that's around 153Hz... unless you've eq'd out phase issues, I would've expected that to come from the mains, so the sub orientation would have little or no effect...

Wayne A. Pflughaupt

· #11 · Mar 11, 2010

Or sub equalization...

Regards,
Wayne

gperkins_1973

Discussion Starter · #12 · Mar 11, 2010

Hi guys,

I am crossing over at 80hz. I will run some more tests tonight when I get home to see if I can EQ it out.

cheers
graham

Ricci

· #13 · Mar 11, 2010

It almost looks as if your mains are hot relative to your subs. Did you do a lot of EQ cutting since you last level matched? You may want to recalibrate the overall levels. Your last graph looks good. In the future just leave the smoothing off for <200hz measurements. I'm not surprised that your upper response cleaned up after pointing the subs into the wall. You have big subs and when the driver is 3 or 4 feet away from the wall it can put a big null in that range. I did something similar, but I left one sub pointed out to monitor the driver as you put it even though it slightly worsened the response.

gperkins_1973

Discussion Starter · #14 · Mar 11, 2010

2

Ricci,

I think I am going crazy. I have moved them back to facing the speakers and run a house curve of 30hz +6 and 80hz 0 and got the curve looking ok but when I added the speakers straight afterwards the sub defo looked too low compared to the speakers so I re did the levels of 75db for sub and speakers and it still looks wrong to me. I have turned Audyssey off.

The now seems to be a big dip between 80 and 95hz.

1st graph is sub only with house curve and 2nd is sub and speakers.

Any thoughts.

cheers

Graham

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gperkins_1973

Discussion Starter · #15 · Mar 11, 2010

I have just altered the subs distance from 2.4m to 1.5m and it looks better but there is that big peak in what looks like about 160hz.

cheers

Graham

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laser188139

· #16 · Mar 11, 2010

To evaluate what is happening at the high end, you may want to run the sweep up to 500Hz or 1000Hz. My mains start showing significant room effects beginning at 100Hz, including large peaks, that are not present higher up. This is the region where you begin seeing the effects of surface reflections, including the ceiling.

Bill

Wayne A. Pflughaupt

· #17 · Mar 11, 2010

I agree with Bill, extend your graphs out to 3 kHz or so. That might not be a hump at 160, it may just show the overall level of your mains.

Regards,
Wayne

gperkins_1973

Discussion Starter · #18 · Mar 11, 2010

I think it must be something to do with the Audyssey off as this pic is me quickly re EQing with Audyssey on and I don't get the same problem.

What do you guys think?

cheers

Graham

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gperkins_1973

Discussion Starter · #19 · Mar 11, 2010

2

This is with audyssey off. The EQ for the sub will be wrong but you can see the speaker response.

The second one is both together, Audysse on and off.

cheers
graham

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gperkins_1973

Discussion Starter · #20 · Mar 11, 2010

This is the next band of frequencies along with both together.

cheers

Graham

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