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Discussion Starter #1
I am thinking of buying the HSU STF-2 subwoofer since my very old Yamaha YST-SW60 sub really sucks, especially when the new THX flower intro played on Clone Wars. It sounded awful; most of the time it is fine, but I guess the THX demo was a little deeper than most of my blu-ray discs. Can someone tell me if the HSU STF-2 will be able to handle the new THX intro? I am not sure what frequencies it is trying to play, but I figure it is below the tuning frequency of the Yamaha (which lists a low frequency of 25Hz, upon further review, it is 10db down at this point).
Also, If I do go this route, can I hook up the Yamaha via the speaker inputs/outputs to my center channel and change it to LARGE on the AV receiver or would I be advised to just let the new subwoofer handle the center low output?
My other subwoofer choice to save money is one of those ebay specials, the PA-120, that I have read about so much. It does not seem like it plays as low or loud as the STF-2, but it is over $100 cheaper. Could it handle the THX intro?

If neither can, could I use a passive high pass filter like a Harrison Labs 12 db/octave? I thought of just slapping one of the 30 Hz modules on my Yamaha just to get me by without messing up the subwoofer.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I really want to stay under $400, but stay as low as possible.
I listen pretty loud when watching movies, usually loud enough that you cannot talk (I do that so that we can watch the movie without anyone talking)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Have you considered this SVS Subs ??? ...I also read a lot of good things about the JBL L8400P ...

With your budget you're a candidate to DIY one ...I'm in the process of building my first sub, but you'll need to get an amp to power the sub ...:yes:

i've looked at the SVS subs, with the PB10–NSD being the only one in my price range. However, I have read that the Hsu subs sound just as good or better for a bit less.

I don't want to go DIY at this point, unless i can get something similar to what I have been researching at $100 less.


The JBL seems pretty good from the description, and it has a really high list price. The regular price is pretty good in comparison, unless they just inflated the list price more than most manufacturers. I like that it is a 12" sub. I have always thought that the bigger the better (except in the car because cabin gain really amplifies the low end). Of course, this is the priciest sub out of the three (not counting the VTF-2 MK 3 that I mentioned previously).
 

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This one looks promising. If it is THX certified, it should play that intro with no problem and would be an accurate sounding subwoofer.

Too many choices.
A THX certified subwoofer means nothing as there are subs that will preform better that dont have the certification in that price range. To get into a sub that actually plays down to or below 20Hz with decent db's you will need to spend a bit more cash then your $400 budget.

How large is your room that the sub is in?

could I use a passive high pass filter like a Harrison Labs 12 db/octave? I thought of just slapping one of the 30 Hz modules on my Yamaha just to get me by without messing up the subwoofer.
Putting a module will not help with the output below what the Yamaha is already currently doing as thats a limitation of the desgin and you would dammage the sub if you did.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
That's part of my problem with my budget. The room is 18.5' x 18.5' with 8' ceilings. Plus, one corner opens into the kitchen and dining area. The whole section of the house is about 31' x 22'.

That's why I started looking into the VTF-2 MK 3.

I know it's a large area, but so far the Yamaha has been fine for enough bass, just not the low end bass. I figure it was meant for a very small room and if it sounds OK in my large area, any of the subs mentioned so far should be way better.
 

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The lower frequencies require alot more power and size. Yes the subs mentioned may do better but sadly not much better. Your room is also a perfect square and that will cancel out some of the frequencies due to reflections. Do you have any bass traps or other acoustic paneling in the room?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
No accoustic panels, not allowed to put them in the living room.
With the opening in the one corner that goes to the dining room and kitchen, should I point the sub towards that opening to avoid cancelation?
 

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Where were you finding the HSU for $400? The cheapest model listed on their website is almost $500. You won't do much better than the VTF-2 MK 3 at that price.

If you have $500, some spare room and some extra time DIY can get you a lot more (last shamelss plug :nerd:). Given your budget and performance requirements I don't see any other options.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The STF-2 is under $400

and

The Satin Black VTF-1 is under $400.


I don't have a lot of room to put in a subwoofer that would be noticable. I need to be able to trade places with the current sub and have it not look like it is new. So some gigantic DIY box would not work for me. Getting 4x8 sheets of MDF home is not easy to get home either. I had thought of doing an IB setup, but still need the MDF for a manifold in the attic.
 

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... I need to be able to trade places with the current sub and have it not look like it is new.
:scratchhead: ...Are you hidding something??? (WAF: wife approval factor by any chance) :whistling: :bigsmile:

Do you mind having a tower/silo in a corner of the room??? ...my sub is a tube (18"x70") it will be in a corner near TV :yes:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
:scratchhead: ...Are you hidding something??? (WAF: wife approval factor by any chance) :whistling: :bigsmile:

Do you mind having a tower/silo in a corner of the room??? ...my sub is a tube (18"x70") it will be in a corner near TV :yes:

I think a small tower in the corner would be a bit too conspicuous.

At one point I was going to make an 8 cu ft box for my old infinity 12" sub just to get lower extension on the base. I was going to make a footstool out of it since my wife wants a footstool; that way i would kill 2 birds with one stone. I just hate the idea of borrowing a truck to bring home the MDF and then cutting it up. I don't trust the bozos at Lowes to cut the pieces for me. I think they will make 2 cuts for free, but I just do not see them being precise enough for a subwoofer enclosure. I suppose I could have them cut it in half length-wise for 2x8 sheets and fit them in the CR-V. Then just use that dimension for one of the dimensions on the box. I just know that the infinity sub would not handle much power and would not be very loud at 100 watts. However, still better than the Yamaha I would imagine.

I might just take the plunge into one of the Hsu subs (or maybe the JBL or the SVS). I like the cheaper one, but the other one is on sale for a decent price. I really think that any of the subs would be better than the Yamaha, and I am thinking that all of the subs mentioned would not bottom out like my Yamaha did on the THX intro.

Sounds like I am going to have to find the best sub for what I am willing to spend. I really think that I do not need to worry so much about room size and shape right now. I don't have a dedicated HT in place, nor will I for a long time, so I have to make due with what I can. As long as the bass is low and is loud or louder than the Yamaha, I should be very happy. It cannot be too loud anyway, I almost got in trouble with the train on The Polar Express the other day. You cannot convince a woman/wife that the film makers made it roar that loud, not the subwoofer or receiver volume knob. I think I may pick up one of the boxes and stick it behind my chair or the sofa so that I can hear it without it being too loud. Right now it's in the right front corner facing the far corner (not directly facing the corner, slightly off because I figured the soundwaves would bounce right back and start cancelling out).
 

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I just watched that intro on the movie today(star wars clone wars) on my epik caliber and WOW that is the coolest thx intro yet. I did not get any clipping or distortion, and i was playing the intro on -5 on my onkyo 805. my sub is calibrated to 84 DB on my radio shack meter (the rest of speakers to 75db) so this is loud and the sub held up and sounded great. hope this helps and i am not saying the caliber is the best. All im saying is the caliber sound great with that intro.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Well I ordered the Hsu STF-2. Apparently some of the other Hsu prices were special pricing from the weekend, so I didn't go VTF. I was really leaning towards the PB10–NSD because it looked really good on paper, but after reading comparison tests, including one head to head test, I figured that I could save some omoney on the STF-2. The head to head indicated that he could not audibly hear a difference in the extreme low-end as the specs showed. I suppose that if the output is not enough due to the more open section of the house, I can always add a second one later. If I ever decide to dedicate one room for HT that can be closed off, I think this particular subwoofer will be more than enough. They are indicating that it is for up to 3000 cu ft. My basement rooms are only 2500 cu ft, so it would be matched up very well. I plan to place the subwoofer in the back corner near my recliner and sofa so that I hopefully will not need to turn it up too loud to hear the low end.
 

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I might just take the plunge into one of the Hsu subs (or maybe the JBL or the SVS). I like the cheaper one, but the other one is on sale for a decent price.
I know that you can get JBL on ebay for around $300 (there's two that you can buy right now for 389 and 399, the others are auction) ...you can also look for used subs (if you don't mind), craigtlist, audiogon, videogon, kijiji are good places to start.

Your yamaha is 60RMS ...so anything bigger will sound better; I have a Velodyne VRP1000 and Infinity TSS750 (150RMS each and frequency response 35Hz -150Hz) ...that's why I'm building my Sonosub to go a little lower :yes:

EDIT: Oops ...to late. Congratulations on your purchase.
 

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The head to head indicated that he could not audibly hear a difference in the extreme low-end as the specs showed.
I question anyone who says that, as anything below about 30Hz is not heard but felt and that is where a sub really starts to make an impact. Also the ratings that it is large enough to fill a 3000sq ft room is highly exaggerated.
Congratulations on your decision, for the money its about as good as you can get unless you buy used. Post your thoughts on it once you have it set up.
 
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