Home Theater Forum and Systems banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Okay sorry to hit you guys up for more info again. This just seems to be one of the more helpful and informative sites around (although I read a lot of others just don't post very often). So I come to you once again for help and I do need help this time.
I don't want to come across as negative just concerned....I ordered a TC2000 15" driver. TC informed me that they are out of their cones for that model and emailed me a photo of a different cone (all flat black not aluminum) and asked if I wouldn't mind substituting. They say the parts they need to build the regular one won't be in until January or later and I could wait if I wanted to or get my money back. They say this new cone is an upgrade and won't affect the performance at all but I need someone to look at the info for me and tell me if it will affect my design or not. Here is the info from their website. They told me that it is from their 5200 line and not the 2000. If you open up the LMS driver portion of their website and click on the 5400 model it will open up a page with those drivers on it. Then if you click on the 5200 model and scroll down the page to the "competition package" you will see a picture of the black cone and this description:

Quote "The TC competition package top assembly is ideal for mobile audio users who demand more slam and higher sensitivity. This package is ideal for enclosures with higher tuning frequencies (above 30Hz). The package utilizes our ultra light weight pro audio black aluminum anodized cone with a treated composite surround, and effectively reduces the weight of the moving mass by over 50 grams thus increasing sensitivity and overall output. The lightweight surround does limit excursion to 2.5” P2P, and therefore compromises extremely deep bass; however, xmax still holds at 30mm each way. In ported enclosures tuned above 30Hz, beyond 2.5" peak to peak excurion constitutes little difference and the competition package could be used with improved output. Otherwise for home audio or deeper tuned system, the CP should not be used. The CP is highly recommended for car audio systems tuned at 32Hz or above. Because of the replaceable top assembly, The competition top assembly and standard top assembly can be swapped at any time."

Now my enclosure is a typical LLT (24" by 48" sono, 28-30 inch port (6incher)). The part that concerns me is this line ...."the CP is highly recommended for car audio systems tuned at 32Hz or above." (and this line)...." for home audio or deeper tuned system, the CP should not be used." :raped: :raped: :rubeyes: :rubeyes:

Now TC reps told me a tech said it would have no effect on my use of it. But would this cone when used in conjuction with the regular TC 2000 voice coil and basket make a difference in my ability to tune my sub to the 15 HZ range??!!

Somebody please help! I don't want to end up with a driver that will give less than satisfactory performance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Well I just called and talked to one of their techs and was told that they had another cone or surround other than the black one with more peak to peak excursion that was a more appropriate match for what I wanted. I told him it was for home theater purposes and that I wanted to tune it down to about 15hz. I think the FS of the competion model was about 25 whereas the 2000 model was 18. He said this other one should work better for what I want. I feel a bit better now but am still a bit nervous because this won't be the same driver everyone has been using with good results in the LLT's. I wonder if there is any way to have someone in my area measure the output after I get it installed. I want to make sure I am getting the response everyone else is experiencing. I would hate to get everything built and set up and find out I am getting a steep rolloff below 30hz. I am very new to this so naturally I am worried. Any thoughts out there?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,585 Posts
I'll leave the answer to the experts, but listed below are the specs for the two drivers. I didn't know which TC-2000 you had, so I put both.

At the very least, it doesn't look like it goes as low as the TC-2000's.


JCD

15" TC-2000 SVC
Qts 0.321
Qes 0.347
Qms 4.264
Fs 18hz
Res 3.19Ω
Ls 2.45mH
Lp 5.87mH
Rp 4.30Ω
Dia 330mm
Vas 267l
mms 296g
cms 260um/N
bl 17.2T*m
Spl 88.5dB


15" TC-2000 DVC
Qts 0.371
Qes 0.397
Qms 5.731
Fs 20hz
Res 6.06Ω
Ls 4.52mH
Lp 8.32mH
Rp 7.33Ω
Dia 330mm
Vas 231l
mms 277g
cms 225um/N
bl 23T*m
Spl 88.6dB

15" TC-5200 QVC +CP
Qts 0.124
Qes 0.125
Qms 21.1
Fs 25Hz
Res 4.8Ω
Ls 7.5mH
Lp 12.7mH
Rp 15.59Ω
Dia 325mm
Vas 115l
mms 324g
cms 118um/N
bl 45T*m
Spl 93.9dB

JCD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I had the Single voice coil. Thanks for posting those. I debated about posting them as well but I figured I had rambled on long enough in my opening post. I don't fully understand what all that info means and that is why I am hoping you guys can help shed some light on the situation for me.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
960 Posts
Comparing the mms figures of the 5200 +cp and the Tc-2000 reveals some differences in suspension and cone weight. I dont think your driver would be well suited to HT duty with that setup. Did he give you any more information about the other cone option?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hey thanks for the reply exOCer. I am fairly new to this whole speaker building thing (the woodworking part is easy) the TS parameters and other info I am still figuring out. I have a Vance Dickason book being shipped as we speak but I am still a bit clueless so you will have to bear with me.
When I talked to the tech and expressed my concerns over the first replacement/ recommended cone he agreed and said it wasn't suitable for tuning as low as I would like. Since I want to tune to about 15hz he said he had another cone that had more mass,not quite as sensitive, and a bit more xmax than the CP 5200 and would be more of what I wanted and a closer match to the 2000 that I ordered. I don't have any of the parameters for it unfortunately since I didn't know what were the appropriate questions to ask when I talked to him. I just knew to explain the low extension I wanted and if it would be compatable with my original set up.
I am trying to be patient, understanding, and trusting but since I am new to this ballgame I don't want to be taken advantage of or end up with a less than satisfactory product. He said he would send the Thiele Small measurements with the sub when it shipped but I don't think there is any way to get them now (not that I could do anything with them but you guys could help me) since they don't normally make this configuration of driver. If the driver performs the way I want and I get similar results to you gentlemen then I will be happy but I just don't want to end up a with a Frankenstein driver that fizzles. :spend: :(
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
960 Posts
Glad I can help a fellow DIYer ;)

One question, the cone they mention will have lower sensitivity than which driver? The Tc-2000 or the Tc-5200 cp?

I'm pretty sure the guys at Tc-sounds know what they're doing. Unfortunately I feel that it is necessary to have a pretty accurate set of T/S available to you before planning any builds. Reason is, you (or HTS staff) can simulate a pretty close representation of what type of output you should expect prior to having it done. This is one of the important benefits to going the DIY route. Also, we can help you determine box dimensions and port length etc.

I understand that the driver will be completely custom built for you so there will be no way to get T/S parameters for the driver before its built for you. That said, maybe you can try and sway the parameters a bit in your favor. You'll want a highish vas (around 260-300 liters), Qts in the range of .3-.4 (or lower) and no higher...you already know you want a lowish Fs (18hz is good).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The second cone they recommended is supposed to have lower sensitivity than the 5200 model. Right now the sonotube is 2 feet by 4 feet. I plan on having 3 layers on the bottom 2 on top so that will be a total of 3 layers inside the tube not counting the driver and port. I haven't determined exact volume in liters yet or how long to cut my 6 inch port. So I could change volume of the sono by adding layers internally if I need to reduce it. But I can't make it any bigger. Any suggestions on port length? OR do I need to wait for the TS measurements? And sorry but what is QTS and how do I keep it in the .3 or .4 range? Like I said I am new at this but I do have a Vance D book on it's way...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yeah I am kind of worried about that as well. But I guess if it doesn't work the way I want it to I can always send it back in January and have them put the right cone on it. Hopefully at no cost to me. Has anyone else had these strange results from TC Sounds? I am trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. I assume they are just overwhelmed with orders after they put the drivers on sale and they got all the people in the lower to midrange market suddenly placing orders. Everyone seems to be happy with their drivers and the service they have recieved so I hope I am in the minority with all these strange developments regarding my driver.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,398 Posts
But I guess if it doesn't work the way I want it to I can always send it back in January and have them put the right cone on it. Hopefully at no cost to me.
Errm, I'm definitely not to be taken as a mouthpiece for TC Sounds, but I highly doubt they'd cover that.

I assume they are just overwhelmed with orders after they put the drivers on sale and they got all the people in the lower to midrange market suddenly placing orders.
I don't think these driver manufacturer's have very large operations, and I don't think it's much of a pull environment. I think they do batch manufacturing and just hold out on starting a new batch until the current one gets extremely low. The result is shortages - it's not limited to TC though, I've seen it with SS, Stryke, AA, and Adire as well.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top