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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I'm getting ready to embark on a journey which is familiar to some and completely new to me, so I've got a lot of questions, some kinda dumb, some not so dumb. I want to lose the PSW1000 and add a Crown I-Tech 4000, either a LMS 5400 Ultra or LMS Pro 5100, and two 18" PRs. Do any of you have experience with both of these drivers? Kyle from TC Sounds was telling me the 5100 is going to have more impact above 20 Hz due to it's higher eff, but the 5400 will take the gold medal at 20 and below. I really like the fact that the 5400 matches the 18" PR, which kinda makes me want it more, but if the 5100 is really that much better than the 5400, then I'd go for it.

My next questions are about using a PR system. I have absolutely zero experience with them, but the idea of extra output with zero port noise sounds pretty sweet. What's it going to sound like in comparison to a ported system? Every subwoofer I've owned as of late has been ported. I never really run into port noise except at the highest volumes.

Do I need to run a separate 20A breaker and line for the subwoofer amplifier? The volumes aren't going to get super high since this is only in a large bedroom, not an all-out home theater. My brother's an electrician, so having that done isn't an issue.
 

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I can't give advice on the drivers but as for the amp you should be more then ok with a standard 15amp circuit as the amp won't be pulling full load all the time.:T
 

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For home theater get the 5400. PR's are the only way to port the sub effectively. Two of them should do the trick. You can get a real clean 120db at 20hz in a ground plane test with one of those subs. It was the top of Illka's tests run here. The other major competitor IMO is the 21" maelstrom.

You might also consider a horn build, multi sub setup, or IB.

My first recommendation is a 4 Dayton Reference 15" Ported corner loaded setup.

My next is the IB.

My third is a horn.

IMO the LMS 18" while wonderful is overpriced and too inefficient. I would much rather have subs I can drive with a Hifimediy T3 than one i need a crown pro amp for.
 

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I have dual sealed LMS 5400 and love em. That said I would not hesitate to use the Pro 5100 either especially if I was going to to a PR set-up which favors the 5100.

The 5100 is more than 30lbs lighter than the 5400 as well, when mounting my subs that 30 lbs weight loss would have been welcome.

If your going to use a Crown I-Tech 4000 then it has more than enough power to drive a sealed LMS 5400 in a 3.5cuft enclosure. If the bedroom is not gigantic then it should be more than enough.

The 5400 is more of a driver that can take an insane amount of power in a very small enclosure and still have excellent SQ. If you are more inclined to go the ported or PR route than the 5100 is probably a better choice.

PR'ed systems just have a steeper roll off after tune than a ported enclosure and the box is usually smaller as you don't have to compensate for port volume. PR's are usually easier to use as well if your a newb.
 

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On the power front if your brother can easily run a 20amp line for you then why not. I am still waiting for my friend to run my new line but I am currently running a pair of QSC PLX3402's of a 15amp line with no problem, I just know they won't put out there max power until I upgrade the line.
 

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Even though I own a pair I have to agree with lsiberian that the LMS 5400 are overpriced and inefficient.

Am I regretting my purchase? NO WAY!!!!!!!!!

For movies it is easy to beat the LMS in price/spl terms but for music they are the cleanest subs I have ever owned equaling or bettering the JL F113 which was the best musical subwoofer I had prior to the LMS. The main thing the F113 lacks is SPL for movies so that is why you see so many multiple F113 installs, hardly ever see someone with 1 F113 unless it is in a small room. The LMS gives me the SQ of the F113 while blowing it out of the water in terms of SPL and extension for movies.
The F113 might have had a small advantage in the mid-bass so if that's the characteristic your looking for then the 5100 might be the better choice.
 

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My first recommendation is a 4 Dayton Reference 15" Ported corner loaded setup.
Which Dayton Reference would you go with, the HF or HO?

For movies this would kill the 5400 or 5100.
 

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Which Dayton Reference would you go with, the HF or HO?

For movies this would kill the 5400 or 5100.
Well for his setup I think a single sealed TC sub is probably best for the low profile stuff. But I honestly don't know the difference between the HF and HO. Mechanically they are virtually identical from what I can tell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
4 15s in the corner would be pretty wild, but I don't have room to spare in any of my corners. I was planning on doing the 18 flanked by PRs in the front of the room. I suppose I'd like to tune the system down around 15 Hz, so I'm thinking the 5400 and two VMP 18" PRs will do the trick. Thoughts/comments/questions?
 

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16x20 with 10' ceilings and closed
The Ultra is a great sub. It rivals a horn with enough power. I just don't view it as the elegant solution because the power requirements are so enormous. I love TC Sounds drivers and own one myself. I just wonder if something more efficient requiring a more reasonable amp might be a better choice. Your room isn't small but it isn't really huge either. You can also do dual subs midwall and get very close to the room smoothness of 4 subs if you are fortunate to have that option. I know a guy in Fort Worth who had an axis and eventually replaced it with the SVS Ultra's because pro-amps and pro-gear are a pain to deal with. So do keep that in mind. For most folks I think a plate amp and a Dayton Reference sub is the way to go. There are time I debate getting a plate amp myself. Just for the simplicity of it all.

Now that my disclaimers are out of the way.
Between the two do go with the 5400. The other is a pro-driver.

If you don't mind having a tall box. Look into a tapped horn.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I dont necessarily mind tall, but would prefer to avoid it. I was thinking of making a wide enclosure that would look like a table up front, with a black cloth grill to cover the driver and radiators.

Quick question: Kyle from TC Sounds recommended an 8-9 cu. ft. enclosure with both PRs fully loaded, giving me a 15 Hz tune. Is this gonna make the sound muddy? It's just that I've never dealt with PRs before.
 

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Kyle knows everything there is to know about the LMS. The LMS with two PRs in a 9 cu.ft. cab is almost all there is, few can best that. There is no muddy LMS with or without PRs. There is just tight, gargantuan, powerful audio with less distortion than anything else out there.
There is an example that Ilkka tested that will prove what I've said.
DIY TC Sounds LMS-5400 18" + 2x18" PR 200L

Read more: Subwoofer Tests Round 5, 6th of October 2007, Test Summary ***READ ME*** - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
 

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Phil is right, Kyle has tons of knowledge about the LMS so his advice is solid.

He told me about the smallest you should probably go with the LMS/dual PR combo is about 5.5cuft but if you really want to get down low then the 8 to 9 cuft he recommended is the way to go.
 

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As far as the sound being muddy it would depend on the enclosure construction and of course EQ-ing the sub properly, that would be for either a sealed or ported/PR enclosure.

I thought about going the PR route with my LMS but the locations I had to place the subs called for the enclosures to be small. The only sub I have experience with both sealed and a PR enclosure is the TC3000 15", the sealed was a bit more snappy in the mid-bass but the PR'ed version wasn't muddy at all. The TC3K is not close to as good as the LMS though but that's the closest comparison I have personally.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I spoke to Thilo from TC yesterday and kinda got everything figured out. My enclosure will probably be around 9.5 cu ft, braced to the max and loaded with the 5400 and two VMP 18s. I'm going to make the enclosure look similar to an entertainment center, but have it be pure subwoofer. The I-Tech 4000 is going to be the amp used for the subs. At this point, it's simply a matter of putting some money aside for this, as well as making an AV rack to store my amplifiers, receiver, megachanger, etc. in. Should be one wild build!
 

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I spoke to Thilo from TC yesterday
:blink: You spoke with THILO?????

If you didn't know it, JIM, THILO is the king of sub drivers. He is the MAN behind the LMS 5400, it was his mind that created this monster we call the . . . . . what do we call it?? Congratulations. You've just gone and done what thousands of us out here would like to do.

:crying:
 

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Hey Phil,

You need to pick up the phone and give TC a call, a lot of times Thilo picks up the phone, I have spoken to him about 3 times my-self. He is really easy to talk to and a really nice guy.
 
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