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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there,

Just want you guys to check something for me. A guy was running simulations with his Pioneer 12 driver :

http://www.pioneer.at/eur/products/TS-W308D2/print.html

And was comparing it to the Tempest X2 15 inch driver :

http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=652

He wants to upgrade the driver he is currently using to something more robust, with greater swept displacement. Box size is 148L, currently ported. He said that in the simulations his Pioneer was outgunning the Tempest down low. Can someone please run a comparison simulation between both because that isn't physical possible.

The Pioneer driver has a little over 8mm of one-way excursion with an Fs of 34 Hz ! The Tempest is bigger with 26mm of one-wave travel, Fs of 19 Hz.

I can't run simulations at work but was hoping a few of you could just double check to make sure.

Regards,
 

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Where is the comparison method and results? Without knowing what "the guy" was doing, it's difficult to comment. In general, placing a driver into a random enclosure it is not designed for will create unpredictable results, and if the enclosure is ported then the results at or below the tuning frequency may or may not be affected by the driver being used.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
These were his calculations in WinISD :

With Tempest : in 140l @ tuned to 18.7hz (ported) it gives me 25hz at -3db, 20hz at -6.3db
in 140l sealed, it gives me 32.7hz @ -3db, 24.7hz @ -6.1db
Pioneer : is 148l tuned to 19.2hz(ported) gives me 17.3hz @ -3db, 16hz @ -6db

According to him the Tempest will be 9 dB's louder down to 10 Hz. But from 14 Hz and up, it's even. Take a look at the Pioneer specs. It only has 8mm of excursion.

Something can't be right about these results.

Regards,
 

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That's entirely possible. Model it up and see!
 

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That's the 1w frequency response. Otherwise known as "big whoop". Up the power to 500w and make the graphs xmax limited and then see what happens...:T
 

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This is a comparison of the 2 subs in ideal enclosures. The top one is the Tempest in Red is the Pioneer. In between I added the Shiva.

I included the appropriate Subsonic Filter to ensure the driver stays within Xmax.

It's pretty clear there is no competition here. The Tempest has flatter response goes deeper and has far more headroom.
 

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What do you mean when you say make the graphs xmax limited ?

Regards,
This means you limit the driver from exceeding the xmax in your model. For example the Xmax of the pioneer is like 8mm while the Tempest is 26mm.

In an ideal box you are limited to 100watts with the Pioneer. In an ideal box you are limited to 1000 watts by the tempest. The result is that the Tempest can go twice as loud as the Pioneer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
lsiberian,

Thanks for modeling the two drivers. There is clearly a big difference between the two. I was wondering how the Pioneer with its Fs of 34 Hz would be able to do so well (or poorly).

Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
lsiberian,

The results you posted were assuming that the ideal box sizes were chosen. But if you had to limit it to 140 L (ported), how would the Tempest fare in those conditions ?

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lsiberian,

The results you posted were assuming that the ideal box sizes were chosen. But if you had to limit it to 140 L (ported), how would the Tempest fare in those conditions ?

Regards,
It would still best the Pioneer by 10 db for almost the entire audible range. Plus in such an alignment the Pioneer has a nasty peak.
 

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@Vaughan100

It is almost certain Tempest-X2 15" will reach the very low bass notes as it has fs=19.5Hz and what is also very important the high Qts will allow it to happen (only low fs cannot do-i tested it several times, an absolute must :laugh:)

this pioneer is also an option is more rigid but u see fs is climbing to 33,7 - this will only do if this is gonna be your F3 limit
 
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