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I'm a bit new to the sub build network and am wondering why you chose sealed over ported? With my limited experience and knowledge it's would seem that this beast would easily get to the lower bass levels that you are attempting in a ported cabinet. Very impressive.
 

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So the most important question... Where are you in South LA? They have been having some issues with sink holes and I bet it's NOT the drilling but instead your sub shaking the very core of the Earth... :)

Sorta like the VLF systems we use to talk "through" the earth to the submarines...
 

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Discussion Starter #24
I'm a bit new to the sub build network and am wondering why you chose sealed over ported? With my limited experience and knowledge it's would seem that this beast would easily get to the lower bass levels that you are attempting in a ported cabinet. Very impressive.
Sealed will extend lower without high pass filtering, unloading of the driver or a combination of both... 104dB corrected at 8Hz in room [1200 cu. ft.] At reference level and above, it can reproduce "Jurassic Lunch" and the 10Hz clomp at 1:02 quite well. To attempt to get very low with an LLT would require a box much too large for my wishes. More pics:
 

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Discussion Starter #25
WOW, I want 4 of them :D
In a room my size, four of them would be catastrophic enough to land me on the local police blotter long before they ever reach the limits of mayhem. I cannot even imagine 116dB @ 8 Hz!:coocoo:
 

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In a room my size, four of them would be catastrophic enough to land me on the local police blotter long before they ever reach the limits of mayhem. I cannot even imagine 116dB @ 8 Hz!:coocoo:
It's better to have the power and not need it, than to need the power and not having it :bigsmile: I've got a single PSA-XV15, and to me it sound much better than my dual Klipsch RW-12D. I can only imagine what a 21" sub can do.
 

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Discussion Starter #27 (Edited)
It's better to have the power and not need it, than to need the power and not having it :bigsmile: I've got a single PSA-XV15, and to me it sound much better than my dual Klipsch RW-12D. I can only imagine what a 21" sub can do.
Klipsch subs are the most stunning from a visual standpoint. I think they leave a bit to be desired on the bottom but their specs usually give max spl at 30Hz (1/8 space @ 1m) so they pretty much give you what you can expect. I find that vented consumer subs almost always roll off in a sharp manner due to driver unloading and high pass filtering. No doubt you have noticed this with the much more capable PSA. However, I do love Klipsch so don't take offense...Why at this very moment a pair of RB-35's are on their way to me. They will match up well with the pair I already have...all that needs changing now is the Acoustech center channel and I will have highly efficient 8" drivers all around. One day I might sell all four for a pair of RB-81's or 75's. I sorta dig the sound of horns...gimme the detail, both good and bad!

The sub will eventually become a 2x21", it is just a matter of when a driver becomes available and if I feel up to building another enclosure from scratch. As it stands, the max at 8 Hz is 104dB at the LP. Adding another will be done strictly to elicit superfluous headroom and a satiated ego.
 

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Very nice information. I don't believe that I've ever heard a sub in person with that kind of output before. Oh, and hello from another South Louisiana native.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
update:

Finally did a recheck with the impedance analyzer on the sub today and found Fb @ 59 Hz...so .51 Qtc. is just about right.

MAX SPL at the extreme low end:

8 Hz - 103 dB @ LP
10 Hz - 105 dB

Since I can't seem to find this mystery driver Ricci tested called the ZOD 621D, I will have to make do for now. The Beyma 21SW1600ND is an option but more of a lateral one and not worth the cash really. I could do a 21SW115 from B&C but I am not sure that is more than a lateral move either. Looked at specifics on a dual...the cab must become ~ 7" deeper and I just don't know that I want something quite that size at this time. The ZOD would be perfect...then again, it is only 7 inches. Too bad TC Sounds doesn't make a 21" driver! Whatever happened to the 5200? Thing had a qts of .15 if I remember right!

Eventually the pro sound drivers will become increasingly attractive because today's music will force manufacturers to increase the stroke of the drivers to compensate. We have already seen this with the 5100, 21SW, ZOD 21, Beyma 21, RCF. The trend is toward more xmax. I just wish they would hurry the up. Otherwise, I must wait seemingly until the stars burn out for a HT driver with specs that suit me. The last one that did was the TC 3000.
 

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update:

Finally did a recheck with the impedance analyzer on the sub today and found Fb @ 59 Hz...so .51 Qtc. is just about right.

MAX SPL at the extreme low end:

8 Hz - 103 dB @ LP
10 Hz - 105 dB

Since I can't seem to find this mystery driver Ricci tested called the ZOD 621D, I will have to make do for now. The Beyma 21SW1600ND is an option but more of a lateral one and not worth the cash really. I could do a 21SW115 from B&C but I am not sure that is more than a lateral move either. Looked at specifics on a dual...the cab must become ~ 7" deeper and I just don't know that I want something quite that size at this time. The ZOD would be perfect...then again, it is only 7 inches. Too bad TC Sounds doesn't make a 21" driver! Whatever happened to the 5200? Thing had a qts of .15 if I remember right!

Eventually the pro sound drivers will become increasingly attractive because today's music will force manufacturers to increase the stroke of the drivers to compensate. We have already seen this with the 5100, 21SW, ZOD 21, Beyma 21, RCF. The trend is toward more xmax. I just wish they would hurry the up. Otherwise, I must wait seemingly until the stars burn out for a HT driver with specs that suit me. The last one that did was the TC 3000.
Have you tried contacting Ricci to see where you can get one?
 

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One off $2000 plus driver. I think it has been mentioned before that this driver will be EXPENSIVE. If needing excursion and have LOTS of money the new Powersoft woofer design looks awesome.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Have you tried contacting Ricci to see where you can get one?
Yes I have, but no word yet. I can't find any mention of it on internet searches...besides data-bass that is. Big mystery I would say.
 

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Yes I have, but no word yet. I can't find any mention of it on internet searches...besides data-bass that is. Big mystery I would say.
Yeah, I tried searching too.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
One off $2000 plus driver. I think it has been mentioned before that this driver will be EXPENSIVE. If needing excursion and have LOTS of money the new Powersoft woofer design looks awesome.
Yeah, that rascal is quite a bit on the purse. Curious if I could find one used though. 21 mm will get me 3 dB @ 20Hz, 28 mm, about 6, given the same Sd. Probably better to build the dual and I'm sad about that because I don't actually need more output versus time/desire that will be required to extend the enclosure from 3.5 to 5.5 cu.ft. Why can't someone make a stupid little 21" HT driver with high xmax and low qts? Just one is all I ask and then sell it to me for whatever. And yes I'm hung up on low qts because it keeps the box sinfully small considering the size of the driver. It does many other things that I like as well.

The M-Force indeed looks likes something that will consume an even more perverse amount of pecuniary reserves.:gulp:
 

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Resurrecting this older thread. As I am sure you know now. ZOD= 21" IPAL

How many subs do you have in your room to produce the posted results at 8hz and 10hz?

I only ask because after trying to have as much bass as I can in my room because of ULF I am looking at doing some pro audio 18's. Could do the 21's but that would cost me double. Was looking at using a pair of 18 Sound 18LW2500's. Each would go in a very small enclosure beneath my 3way designs with 8's. So some what similar to what you have/had. I would be using the subwoofer enclosures as speaker stands for the 3 ways.

AND being restricted on space and money the pro audio drivers that are here already are a much easier option to incorporate into my application. And as I have noticed before I dont tend to listen to movies that loud. But did much prefer the sound of my ported dual 15 cabinet over my sealed FTW 21 when watching movies. The 15's were 18 Sound NLW 9300's ported in 3cuft at 42hz. When watching movies they just sounded amazing with such clarity. Even when asked to produce notes around 20hz they sounded great albeit moving a LOT. :D

Anyways sorry for the long winded reply.
 

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Seeing that this 21SW152 can reach 8Hz on 103dB, I have more faith in my Coloss 24 Auna, tough it has a lower Fs and A RMS rating of 4500 I still think it should perform awesomely. Thanks for the insight.:T
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Seeing that this 21SW152 can reach 8Hz on 103dB, I have more faith in my Coloss 24 Auna, tough it has a lower Fs and A RMS rating of 4500 I still think it should perform awesomely. Thanks for the insight.:T
Would you mind telling me what the Fs, qts and qes figures are for the 24"? It seems to be designed for automotive applications, which would make it a non-starter for me. I would be interested in the 21" though, even if I doubt it will match the 21SW.
 

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2450 is:
Fs 32
Qes .34
Qts .32

Older technology than the current BC lineup.
 

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I made a 9cf sealed cab for 2 RCF 21s back in 2012.
Using 1 4x8 sheet of 3/4 inch Birch Plywood with bracing
Outside dimensions are 48X24X16
Awesome with equalization.
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zzzRCF with hand.jpg

zzzRCF with beer.jpg

zzzRCF magnet structure with cooling system.jpg

zzzRCF  vs LMS 5400.jpg

zzzRCF cabinet structural bracing.jpg

zzz RCF finished cabinet  48x24x16 2012May1DualRCFSubwoofer011.jpg

The RCF is very well constructed. Fit and finish are near perfect.
Neodymium magnet and cooling system are amazing.
21 inches IS big. I show the RCF next to the LMS 5400 18" in a sealed cab in one picture.
The reproduction quality is excellent even down to 10Hz. I haven't measured the output but know it's substantial
by the way my two sliding glass doors begin to show waves under 20Hz.
The box is big and heavy. I installed wheels on the back and sunken steel handles on the sides.
I use a Peavey IPR 3000 amp for power with a Behringer DEQ 2496 for audio processing and EQ.
I like the LMS 40Hz on down and the RCFs 40Hz on up. That may have everything to do with room acoustics.
The RCF enclosure is the first box I ever had to reglue, rescrew, and reseal after pressurization by the dual RCF drivers.
The power of those drivers is amazing.
I've always meant to hookup the RCF enclosure and use it as a PA speaker.
I wonder what 400 to 2000Hz pushed by 2000 watts through that thing would sound like down the block?
 
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