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Discussion Starter #21
Next: Building a riser, for a back row of seating, putting real furniture in the room, adding more effective paneling from GIK, and trying out many different speaker combinations!
 

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What was the time frame from removing the original drywall to completion?
 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
But seriously, from first blush "let's tear it down" to "the drywall is up and painted" it was a bit more than six months.

Could have been quicker if I paid for more help, or took more time off work, of course.

Add in building the riser, doing treatments, getting the furniture a bit better in order, etc etc, and you are closing in on a year.

And of course the tweaking never stops (for me).

But in my head and when people ask how long it took, I say I spent about a year putting it together.
 

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But seriously, from first blush "let's tear it down" to "the drywall is up and painted" it was a bit more than six months.

Could have been quicker if I paid for more help, or took more time off work, of course.

Add in building the riser, doing treatments, getting the furniture a bit better in order, etc etc, and you are closing in on a year.

And of course the tweaking never stops (for me).

But in my head and when people ask how long it took, I say I spent about a year putting it together.
Thanks, You were posting up everything so fast I figured it had been completed for a while... I am just at the putting up the insulation stage and was trying to get an idea how long it would be till it is ready for my seating... We usually only work on it one day a week but when the weather is bad (as it has been we get a lot more days to work on it).
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Thanks, You were posting up everything so fast I figured it had been completed for a while... I am just at the putting up the insulation stage and was trying to get an idea how long it would be till it is ready for my seating... We usually only work on it one day a week but when the weather is bad (as it has been we get a lot more days to work on it).
Depending on whether you drywall / mud yourself or hire it out, makes a big difference (unless you are an expert already!).

Seems like a couple of amatuers can drywall a room to the point of painting it in five to ten days. A professional crew will do it in a day.

Depending on what you are doing for trim (molding) etc, that can add some time, too.

Here's the other thing I learned, that I didn't think was true: Keep the furniture and projector out of there as long as possible -- not just to keep it clean and safe, of course, but also to keep one focused on completion! I swear the second six months went so much slower than the first because it was finally possible to watch stuff in the room (albeit in a very low rent style!) and that was more fun that just plugging away at finishing things.

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At some point, I'll "finish the story so far" in my posts, and then you'll see how long it takes to get to the next steps for me!

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Anyway, with this rain we are having in NorCal right now and off and on for a few days, I guess you will have time to make even more progress :yikes:

My problem is I need to buy some wood, and would need to transport it is an open vehicle... in the rain. And the wife is laid up with a bad back, so anything requiring two people is on hold.:whistling:
 

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Here's the other thing I learned, that I didn't think was true: Keep the furniture and projector out of there as long as possible -- not just to keep it clean and safe, of course, but also to keep one focused on completion! I swear the second six months went so much slower than the first because it was finally possible to watch stuff in the room (albeit in a very low rent style!) and that was more fun that just plugging away at finishing things.
From when I started framing to when I got the drywall finished and painted and got the projector and couch in took almost 6 months. In the year since then... I've put in the sconces and built the riser.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
From when I started framing to when I got the drywall finished and painted and got the projector and couch in took almost 6 months. In the year since then... I've put in the sconces and built the riser.
Exactly!

And maybe that's okay. But I am sure I am not the only person who said "I can resist".... and then didn't.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Adding the riser was a cool step (no pun intended). You'll notice that the room is built, and the riser it getting added into a fully built room.

You might think this was because it's easier (maybe for me it is, but that's another topic). You may think it was because it was an afterthought (it wasn't). But the real reason is that while I was building a room within a room and the building shares no common walls with anything, I still wanted to seal in the sound and seal out the outside world as much as possible, and building interior pieces into a completed room helped maintain those features of isolation.

Adding all the insulation to the riser helped keep it from becoming a drum.

LESSONS LEARNED: I should have researched how to make the riser into a bass trap. That would have been an almost free (other than effort) nice big bonus! I should have probably made it a bit taller, even though it was already a little close to the ceiling for tall people. And I should have made the riser one foot deeper (minimum) than the four I allowed. Reasons:

1. A basic theater recliner seat needs 5 feet for the user to raise their legs and have at least a foot rest, if not recline fully.
2. It turns out, after much more acoustic theory learning, my front row (head location) should be at 55% of the room for the least standing waves (68% is also an option but then there would have been no second row). For more about why this is, see Anthony Grimani's interviews on HT Geeks. If the back row riser had been another foot in size, my front row would have been in the PERFECT position! Yes, I can pull the front row seats forward, but that's a bit low-rent looking.

Speaking of things looking "low rent": PLEASE excuse the random furniture! I was working with what we had in the house that could be spared :nerd:

 

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Discussion Starter #30
Time to add some acoustic panels from GIK. They guys there were helpful with advice and recommendations.

LESSONS LEARNED: Even though a basic diffuser is twice the price of a absorbing panel, getting a similar amount of wall space covered in each type is ideal. I should have cut back on my absorption factor a bit in order to buy diffusion, even if it meant less overall coverage for while as the budget built back up.

 

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Discussion Starter #31 (Edited)
Here are a few shots of what ended up being the main configuration for perhaps a year. I think around this time I sent a letter into one of those HT magazines to get advice, and Theo K used my theater of an example of horrible aesthetics! Okay, he was right... the AV pieces were nice, but she was ugly with the lights on.


 

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Discussion Starter #32
Next step should have been better furniture. But I'm a a/v geek, so instead I started trying various kinds of audio gear -- mostly cycling through various passive and active speakers. More about that when I get to upload some more photos.

For now, a question:

As I am working on version 2.0 now, I am temporarily using some studio monitors (M Audio Studiophile BX8 speakers) behind an AT screen.

I understand how to calculate the ability of a speaker to play at reference level at a certain distance taking into account sensitivity, power handling, etc.

But I am less clear about how to do that with a studio monitor. Anyone know?

Here are the specs:

Type:Two-way studio reference
LF Driver: 8-inch magnetically-shield mineral-filled polypropylene curved cone
with high temperature voice coil and damped rubber surround
HF Driver: 1-inch magnetically-shield natural silk dome
Frequency Response: 37Hz - 20kHz
Crossover Frequency: 1.8kHz
LF Amplifier Power: 65W
HF Amplifier Power: 65W
S/N Ratio: >100dB below full output, 20kHz bandwidth
Input Connectors: One XLR balanced input connector; one TRS
balanced/unbalanced input connector
Polarity: Positive signal at + input produces outward low-frequency
cone displacement
Input Impedance: 20k ohms balanced, 10k ohms unbalanced
Input Sensitivity: 85 mV pink noise input produces 90dBA output SPL at 1
meter with volume control at maximum
Acoustic Space Control: 0, -2, -4, dB
High Frequency Control: 0, -2, -4, dB
Mid-range Control: Presence, Flat
Low Cut-off Frequencies: 37Hz, 47Hz, 80Hz
Protection: RF interference, output current limititing, over temperature, turn
on/off transient, subsonic filter, external main fuse
Indicator: Blue power on/off indicator on front panel
Power Requirements: Dual-voltage (selectable by rear-panel switch) for
either 115V/~60Hz, 230V/~50Hz; powered via detachable 3-circuit line cord
Cabinet: vinyl-laminated MDF
Dimension: 380 mm (H) x 250 mm (W) x 300 mm (D)
Weight: 20.32 lb/unit (without packing)

 

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Discussion Starter #34
No idea how I missed this thread and have not posted before!

I like the lesson learned you add to each one - very informative for those of us reading along.

As far as the speakers, I suggest posting in the Home Audio Speakers subforum to get a quicker response.
Thanks! Yeah, the lessons learned are too often embarrassing because the info and guidance is "out there" but in some cases I was cutting corners or thinking I was being smarter than I was -- or I didn't understand WHY people recommend doing something the way they do, until it was too late! Hopefully other people can learn from my mistakes -- so I am trying to explain WHY I should have done things differently, to drive the point home.

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Yes, I went looking in the speaker forum (I think) and found a "sticky" thread about speaker sensitivity, SPL, etc etc which seemed like the right spot to ask the question, and asked it there, too.

(Hopefully I don't get my hand slapped for cross posting! :whistling: )
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Any specific reason why? I see this all over the place but I haven't seen (or just haven't understood) any explanations of how this is particularly beneficial.
I'm going to assume your "why" is not "Why are bass traps useful?" I'll bet you know that one! :innocent: (If that is what you are asking, we should move our discussion to the acoustics area.)

So I think the question is "Why turn your riser into a bass trap?"

The answer: Because I am already eating up 6x12x1' = 72 cubic feet of space in my theater. And buying a bunch of insulation to put in there. Turning that into 72 cubic feet of bass trapping means I don't need to eat up ANOTHER 72 cubic feet for dedicated bass trapping. I save space, money, and the ugliness of a dedicated trapping system by making the riser do double duty.

I hope that answers the right question :bigsmile:
 

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I'm going to assume your "why" is now "Why are bass traps useful?" I'll bet you know that one! :innocent:

So the question is "Why turn your riser into a bass trap?"

The answer: Because I am already eating up 6x12x1' = 72 cubic feet of space in my theater. Turning that into 72 cubic feet of bass trapping means I don't need to eat up ANOTHER 72 cubic feet for dedicated bass trapping. I save space, money, and the ugliness of a dedicated trapping system by making the riser do double duty.

I hope that answers the right question :bigsmile:
Yeah, that's what I was asking. I was wondering more about location though, than overall space used. Does having a bass trap on the floor, or under the back row of seating add anything that corner or wall traps don't? I guess I'm assuming that even if you made a 10-foot deep floor to ceiling bass trap in the back of the theater, you'd still want corner traps on the front wall behind the speakers, right?
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Yeah, that's what I was asking. I was wondering more about location though, than overall space used. Does having a bass trap on the floor, or under the back row of seating add anything that corner or wall traps don't? I guess I'm assuming that even if you made a 10-foot deep floor to ceiling bass trap in the back of the theater, you'd still want corner traps on the front wall behind the speakers, right?
Being in a corner and along a wall is ideal. Although some corners are a little better than others, I'm not too prejudice. All are useful. That is where bass congregates. That is where one traps it.

Why does that matter? How does that relate?

Because my riser *IS* in a corner (the corner where the back wall and floor meet). Bass doesn't really care if a corner is vertical or horizontal or in the front or back of the room, etc.

So most risers, if they are like mine, are actually in a perfect place for a bass trap -- in addition to being a cheap way to kill two birds at once (elevated seating, and bass trapping).

Whether that means you don't ALSO need more bass trapping elsewhere is a reasonable question. But it definitely helps. And it's cheap and easy to do and I wish had done it.

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In my "theater 2.0" I am considering making the riser a foot deeper and MIGHT use that opportunity to turn the riser into the trap it should have been. Maybe. (I think the retrofitting might be a b*tch.)
 

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When I asked Bryan about how much trapping I should do for low end, his reply was basically "you can't have too much low end trapping". I also looked into using the riser for trapping, but everything I read gave me the impression that if your riser did not extend from side wall to side wall, you should not use it that way. Unfortunately, that is the case with my riser...
 

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Discussion Starter #40
When I asked Bryan about how much trapping I should do for low end, his reply was basically "you can't have too much low end trapping".
Yep, as long as you can avoid over damping the high end! That's why people use membranes over them etc, as I understand it.

I also looked into using the riser for trapping, but everything I read gave me the impression that if your riser did not extend from side wall to side wall, you should not use it that way.
That's interesting. I have never heard that. Maybe it won't be as effective. But I think it will still be a positive impact.

I mean, should I not use one of my GIK traps because it doesn't reach from floor to ceiling? No I think I should still use it, even though it only covers part of the corner.

But maybe there is something else going on with a riser trap. Do you have more details about that?

(Admittedly, mine is wall to wall, so this is a little academic, but it is an interesting call out.)
 
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