Home Theater Forum and Systems banner

121 - 140 of 160 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,838 Posts
Oh, and about design I'd add that it's philosophy has as much or more to do with sonic signature than anything else, at least outside major parameters like bass extension and available power. Design is the intangible factor but determines nearly the entire personality of the speaker system. It's not uncommon to find so-called house sound shared across models, and in some cases, even brands. Individual drivers each have their sound but their system's personality is at least as important.
Thanks, Jon.

Do you have any shortcuts for evaluating the sound of a driver, other than building it up in an enclosure to hear?

And would you have expected more difference in sound between the dipole midrange (Motion 12) vs the direct-radiating midrange (A5)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Do you have any shortcuts for evaluating the sound of a driver, other than building it up in an enclosure to hear?
You can anticipate the driver's personality beforehand but in practice you'll know it well only after you play it.

And would you have expected more difference in sound between the dipole midrange (Motion 12) vs the direct-radiating midrange (A5)?
Not especially. In a large room and with the each driver covering just the middle of the range they don't have to sound distinctly different. The design tuning is still going to be as important a factor as any component or technique within it.
 

·
Plain ole user
Joined
·
11,121 Posts
Remember, in Sonnie's room we were far from walls and the room is relatively large. In a more conventional room and placement, the dipole would likely sound more different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Having gone back and reread the reviews and comments, I noticed that Eric/Tekton stated that the Lores were designed to be slightly "forward" in their presentation. I read that to mean "front row center" seating at a live music event. Assuming this is correct, it would be interesting to hear the reviewers thoughts about the seating positions that they experienced with the Arx, Logans and HTD's.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
22,577 Posts
Discussion Starter #126
We were all front row center with every speaker.

There are some who like that kind of forwardness... and some that don't. Those that don't can work with Eric to tame it... and then you have a speaker that would very possibly compete with the Arx and ML... for me anyway. If you like that kind of forwardness, you won't like the Arx or ML ... or any of the others we evaluated for that matter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
My point was not so much where you guys sat...but how did the loudspeaker present. So I think your point is that the Lore is a little forward whereas the others are further back...or if the Lore is like sitting front row center, the others are more like 12 rows back center.

And I think your point was right on. Some listeners prefer the forward presentation, for them, the music is more alive and real. Others sometimes find the forward "voicing" too bright...which can sometimes be resolved with careful selection of the rest of the system vs modifying the loudspeaker.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,838 Posts
Having gone back and reread the reviews and comments, I noticed that Eric/Tekton stated that the Lores were designed to be slightly "forward" in their presentation. I read that to mean "front row center" seating at a live music event. Assuming this is correct, it would be interesting to hear the reviewers thoughts about the seating positions that they experienced with the Arx, Logans and HTD's
Yes, Eric even mentioned how much he has and still does enjoy concerts and live music venues and was influenced by that experience in his design of the Lore's. It is not unusual for audience members to pick their spot, when they can, based on sound quality, and some like the hotter sound in front of the stage mains, while others pick a cooler spot. It is less an issue if ear protection is in use, which I do religiously.

My point was not so much where you guys sat...but how did the loudspeaker present. So I think your point is that the Lore is a little forward whereas the others are further back...or if the Lore is like sitting front row center, the others are more like 12 rows back center.

And I think your point was right on. Some listeners prefer the forward presentation, for them, the music is more alive and real. Others sometimes find the forward "voicing" too bright...which can sometimes be resolved with careful selection of the rest of the system vs modifying the loudspeaker.
I had not thought of it in those terms, but I think your take on the matter is accurate. And, although some will take issue, i believe differences in individual hearing response can be a contributor. I have always shied away from a brighter midrange (1 to 4 KHz), and I do not mean big amounts of brighter. A rise of 1 dB that is two octaves wide contains a lot of energy with most program material, and that is about the amount of emphasis we are talking about with the Lore's (1-oct smoothed measurement).

In fact, I wonder if subtle hearing differences might be a contributor in a lot of speaker voicing preferences. No matter, those preference sure exist, and clearly translate to real-life listening experience, as you have suggested.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
I'd like to make another observation which may be helpful for future evaluations. I'm thinking that most listeners can't place loudspeakers 7-8 feet into their rooms. Or 5-6 feet from a side wall. Maybe in the future you could add a few sentences about the sound when placed 2-3 feet out vs your optimal position.
:
Also, I'm thinking that with towers, people may be listening 9-12 feet away and not semi near field at 7-8 feet

I realize that the possibilities are infinite...but any additional tweaks to your observations will be just that much more helpful to people.
 

·
Plain ole user
Joined
·
11,121 Posts
Remember what the goal was. Sonnie wanted optimum soundstage and resolution, in his room, with the listening parameters that he uses. Really, as you say, there are infinite room conditions, so what ever one chooses is somewhat arbitrary. Having the speakers well into the room does minimize variables, and since the priorities were what they were, and since we were comparing the speakers at their best position for these parameters, one could argue that taking much of the room variable out is useful in itself.

Also, Sonnies room simply does not allow conventional placement of another set of speakers because of the rather intense installation of the HT system.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
22,577 Posts
Discussion Starter #132
While I would like to be able to place them 2-3 feet from the wall and give them a go, it would require quite a bit of alterations in the room to make it similar to what most people would have in a two-channel setup. Such as moving the big ML Prodigy's out of the room... and moving the big dual 18" subs out of the room. I did try placing some of the speakers about 4' out from the wall with the listener being about 9' away, but they sounded terrible there. There are also the time constraints... we only have time to do so much.

I believe if readers are looking for that ideal critical music listening setup, they should really try to get their speakers out from the wall while they are listening. If it is just casual listening, then positioning does not really matter. If you are critical listening, chances are you are in a room by yourself and really getting into the music... most likely no one else is around. I guess what I am trying to say is I don't think critical listeners are going to have their wife and a couple kids in the room with them when they are doing serious listening. Therefore, why not get the speakers out from the wall where there is little to effect their sound... and try to get the most out of their sound. I have tried for years to get good sound out of my speakers in my various great rooms with them near a wall and I was never able to get the sound I can get with the speaker out into the room. Of course I realize this may not be feasible with some speakers, if they are big and heavy, but then you probably have a dedicated listening room if you got those kind of speakers.
 

·
Plain ole user
Joined
·
11,121 Posts
That is exactly what I do. My speakers are near the walls, out of the way most of the time and it does not matter until I sit down to just listen. The reality is that the room is shared with other purposes and most listening is very casual. When I do want to just listen, they come way out into the room, but they could not live there all the time.

It takes a lot of time to find the right spot in any room, and they are all different. Once you do, however, there is a balance to the system that you don't otherwise find. All of the speakers we listened to were positioned for their best presentation of the music. I don't think there is a more fair way to do it.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,838 Posts
Echoing what Sonnie and Leonard have already said, our process of trying to find ideal speaker location relative to the set listening position did in some cases involve trying locations closer to the movie screen wall, as you suggest. I believe the Tekton Lore's ended up the farthest away from the LP of them all at one point, a desperation move. But none of them ever sounded very good at that distance in Sonnie's room. The "mid-field' distance was what worked best for depth of soundstage. Don't know if that could be considered a rule of thumb or not.

And I echo the idea that for critical listening the speakers should go where they sound their best. That is the way we feel they should be evaluated and reported anyway, realizing that practicalities of all kinds are at play in most listening rooms. We appreciate the suggestion, though.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,838 Posts
Have to correct myself on the previous post. "None of them ever sounded very good at that distance" of course is highly relative. In reality, the more flexible models - ML, Arx, Klipsch, even the Maggies - all sounded very nice anywhere in the room, you almost can not MAKE them sound bad. Just not with the expansive soundstage we knew they were capable of. I can think of no reason any of them would not transfer to a smaller room, except perhaps the completely dipole Maggies, and that is only a guess. Anyone have experience to share on that?

Edit: I am actually very interested in experiences others might have had with Magnepans in a smaller room. I have a family member thinking about under-$1K 2-channel speakers for a smaller listening room and am pushing him to consider Sonnie's Magnepans from the $1K weekend.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
Read through most of the reviews for the individual speakers and like the "classification" type descriptions you guys have given. All too often we read too much into the measured data and less into the subjective listening experiences with speakers. I am happy to say that I own a pair of the Klipsch RF-62 II's and plan on buying a third to utilize as my center in a matched LCR configuration in my dedicated HT (20% music, 70% movies, 10% games) . I'm also happy to read about the impressions you guys had of them. I'm currently in the building stages of my room and so my speakers haven't been used all that much. I've got them sitting in my office, not connected and covered with a bed sheet just waiting to make their way down to the basement. And congrats to the winner of the giveaway!
 

·
Plain ole user
Joined
·
11,121 Posts
While the priorities in this listening experience were focused on stereo, the fact that the Klipsch performed well regardless of placement makes me think it is a great choice for LCR for HT.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,936 Posts
Read through most of the reviews for the individual speakers and like the "classification" type descriptions you guys have given. All too often we read too much into the measured data and less into the subjective listening experiences with speakers. I am happy to say that I own a pair of the Klipsch RF-62 II's and plan on buying a third to utilize as my center in a matched LCR configuration in my dedicated HT (20% music, 70% movies, 10% games) . I'm also happy to read about the impressions you guys had of them. I'm currently in the building stages of my room and so my speakers haven't been used all that much. I've got them sitting in my office, not connected and covered with a bed sheet just waiting to make their way down to the basement. And congrats to the winner of the giveaway!
I have to say the RC-64 would be good for you for a center channel, any reason you aren't looking that direction? Just curious because I love mine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
I have to say the RC-64 would be good for you for a center channel, any reason you aren't looking that direction? Just curious because I love mine.
Three reasons:

1. Having the room and ability to use the same exact speaker for all three locations is beneficial in voicing, timbre, level matching, etc., etc.

2. Price. The RC64 is well over $800 while I can buy a single RF62 for under $400...

3. I've read that horizontal configured speakers present "issues" and are a compromise in speaker design that was developed due to the need of a speaker to easily fit above or below a TV. I'll be using an AT screen and therefore have the space to use three matching towers as my LCR speakers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
868 Posts
I totally agree with you on this. If you have an acoustically transparent screen and the room to have a tower center channel, that is the ideal way to go. That's how my next setup is going to be too. Having the center channel behind a good AT screen and having an exact match across all three channels will make a substantial difference. Also avoiding an MTM design for the center channel is a good thing.
 
121 - 140 of 160 Posts
Top