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Which pair of speakers do you think will be chosen? (Please read details before voting.)

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With regard to toe in, my experience is that most speakers provide the largest soundstage when toed in somewhere between pointing directly at the listener to pointing straight toward the back wall. Usually more toe in than less, relative to pointing straight to the back wall, is better, but few speakers sound best aimed directly at the listener. This is strictly in terms of soundstage reproduction, not frequency response. Generally, I also find most speakers also sound better farther apart than the distance to the listener, i.e. not an equilateral triangle. There are so many variables with respect to the room, however, that these are not hard rules.

We tried lots of positions for each speaker, some of them with virtually no toe in, usually starting with an equilateral triangle directed straight at the listener. At each location we varied the toe in considerably. The goal remember, was soundstage.
My own experience with finding a speaker's best soundstage falls right in line with Leonard's guidelines above. The equilateral triangle hardly ever does it, and rarely does the listener end up on-axis.
 
I gotta tell you, I was knocked out by the Magnepans. They have something special going on. Wish I could spend more time with them to figure out what makes them tick.
Now wait till you hear the 1.7s for $1,800.00 in the up to $2,500.00 shoot out, you can buy lot's of music for the $700.00 difference, All you need is GOOD JUICE.
 
With regard to toe in, my experience is that most speakers provide the largest soundstage when toed in somewhere between pointing directly at the listener to pointing straight toward the back wall.

[...]

Generally, I also find most speakers also sound better farther apart than the distance to the listener, i.e. not an equilateral triangle. There are so many variables with respect to the room, however, that these are not hard rules.
My own experience with finding a speaker's best soundstage falls right in line with Leonard's guidelines above. The equilateral triangle hardly ever does it, and rarely does the listener end up on-axis.
It's really good to see these things discussed. So many other places were affordable gear is discussed, getting balanced, musical sound is rarely mentioned.*

The A5 - and all of our models - are designed with the toe roughly halfway between square to the room (no toe) and aimed at the listener. I happen to prefer a more closed triangle, however, with the speakers about three units apart and four units from the listener. Naturally, mileage varies.

Splitting the toe-in like that gets the tweeters close to their reference level all the way to the top of their range, but it allows them to be dialed down a little too by clocking them away from straight at the listener.

This variable can be important so maybe start where you can just see the inside faces of each cabinet - each speaker fires just past you to the left and right. Please do experiment twisting them in and out together, listening for a point that's not too bright on one hand, and where the image is not too disembodied on the other.

(*is it me or have other forums reverted to conversations not about listening and enjoying music? I could be wrong but bench-racing presumptions about technology doesn't promote musical enjoyment.)
 
(*is it me or have other forums reverted to conversations not about listening and enjoying music? I could be wrong but bench-racing presumptions about technology doesn't promote musical enjoyment.)
Nope, it's not just you...

For the most parts forums are dominated by bench racers, people who conclude that numbers tell all. I'm not among them, which was what my recent post lamented regarding the science vs. the art of loudspeaker design. Imperceptible variations in measured response are debated ad nauseam far too often, with people seemingly oblivious to the fact that room acoustics are going to change the measurements anyway.

I definitely look at the numbers and use them as a barometer, but for the most part I let those fleshy things on either side of my head decide. My ears ultimately determine where I spend my money. I make no apologies for that either.
 
Nope, it's not just you...

For the most parts forums are dominated by bench racers, people who conclude that numbers tell all. I'm not among them, which was what my recent post lamented regarding the science vs. the art of loudspeaker design. Imperceptible variations in measured response are debated ad nauseam far too often, with people seemingly oblivious to the fact that room acoustics are going to change the measurements anyway.

I definitely look at the numbers and use them as a barometer, but for the most part I let those fleshy things on either side of my head decide. My ears ultimately determine where I spend my money. I make no apologies for that either.
That's a relief. The degree of misinformation is striking: $500 receivers are reference grade (so use them to run anything), tube amps are all "colored", constant directivity is the holy grail, no passive components can possibly affect sound, and so on.

(I tend to emphasize first arrival a lot more than reflections, so I cringe more than most at inadequate, unbalanced systems in expensive treated rooms. I've been involved in countless professional installations but have to admit that the best sound I ever heard was in the worst room I've ever seen. )

There's even a debate somewhere about the relative cost of the speakers in this get-together. Apparently that parameter needs to be dialed in to the dollar for some reason. I'd like to point out that loudspeakers have an approximate acoustical size that may or may not conform to the price of other equivalent speakers in that size class.

But mostly, just listen, which is what happened here. HTS does the community a real service when it reports how to do audio, how to evaluate - with ears, - and how to parse the results, completely regardless how the cards fall on any particular weekend. These reports distinguish this community and they serve it well. Readers can vicariously hear back through your prose into each design and think, yup, that's probably how that would sound, wouldn't it?

I've always thought that everything has a sound and if you want to really get to know the gear, everything sounds exactly like what it is. Bench-racing isn't ever a substitute. Go hear something. There's zero risk and sound is the goal anyway.
 
John Lane wrote:

HTS does the community a real service when it reports how to do audio, how to evaluate - with ears, - and how to parse the results, completely regardless how the cards fall on any particular weekend.
Thanks for the kind words. You nailed it exactly. After all the hype clears, and your left with the sound, you realize that this is what it is all about. Picking a set of speakers that gives you that appreciation for your music. That breaths that "life" into it that just makes you want to listen.

These reports distinguish this community and they serve it well.
I think that our readers can apprectiate that we did this evaluation in the way that represents what is really important (in our opinion). We love this hobby & try to bring our insights to them in an unbiased way. This is why I personally participate in this forum.
 
Nope, it's not just you...

For the most parts forums are dominated by bench racers, people who conclude that numbers tell all. I'm not among them, which was what my recent post lamented regarding the science vs. the art of loudspeaker design. Imperceptible variations in measured response are debated ad nauseam far too often, with people seemingly oblivious to the fact that room acoustics are going to change the measurements anyway.

I definitely look at the numbers and use them as a barometer, but for the most part I let those fleshy things on either side of my head decide. My ears ultimately determine where I spend my money. I make no apologies for that either.
Thanks Jim - you said what I was thinking a whole lot better than I could...

I personally find it fascinating that there is a belief out there that spending oodles of money gets you better sound. I can tell you - I have heard systems that are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars in the last year that I would not want to have in my home. On the flip side, I have heard system in the much more affordable range that I would dearly love to have....
 
The adage "you get what you pay for" is certainly not reliable. I prefer to say that you get what you pay for if you do your homework and you are lucky. Doing your homework takes much of the luck out of the equation.
 
The adage "you get what you pay for" is certainly not reliable. I prefer to say that you get what you pay for if you do your homework and you are lucky. Doing your homework takes much of the luck out of the equation.
For ME the adage ( you get what you pay for ) is reliable 99% of the time and yes there are exceptions, so is the adage ( when it's to good to be true, most of the time it isn't ) :)
 
I just wanted to say THANK YOU to all who contibuted to this informative and detailed listening evaluation. I wasn't concerned which speaker would win, in my honest opinion I know the A5 is a winner for me, every day I am reminded of that when I sit back and enjoy what I'm hearing and not thinking to myself should I have purchased a more expensive model? I don't let these things get in the way of my enjoying what I have. Thanks again to all you guys for this remarkable adventure, looking forward to the next one.
Best Regards, Jeff
 
I just wanted to say THANK YOU to all who contibuted to this informative and detailed listening evaluation. I wasn't concerned which speaker would win, in my honest opinion I know the A5 is a winner for me, every day I am reminded of that when I sit back and enjoy what I'm hearing and not thinking to myself should I have purchased a more expensive model? I don't let these things get in the way of my enjoying what I have. Thanks again to all you guys for this remarkable adventure, looking forward to the next one.
Best Regards, Jeff
We appreciate the feedback. Obviously we are having a good time with it. But we also approach it with a sense of responsibility to HTS members and other readers. We will certainly give you our best in November.

And congratulations on being an A5 owner.
 
We appreciate the feedback. Obviously we are having a good time with it. But we also approach it with a sense of responsibility to HTS members and other readers. We will certainly give you our best in November.

And congratulations on being an A5 owner.
I expect nothing less from you guys, the service you provide is priceless to experienced as well as newcomers to this fascinating hobby, keep up the good work, believe me it is greatly appreciated. Now I have to start saving up for the next speaker class winner :spend:
Cheers Jeff
 
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