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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone who has been reading the thread here on audio cables must have noticed the fireworks on display. Apparently some shacksters feel that paying a lot of money for high end cables is a scam. I think that is getting it backwards. Think for a moment, if you manufactured speakers let's say why would you want your customers to make their $2000 speakers sound like a $3000 speaker by simply changing speaker cables? That makes 0 sense if you manufacture speakers, of course you want them to buy the $3000 speaker.

Why would you want a customer make your $2000 processor sound like a $4000 processor by changing the power cord and interconnects? Wouldn't you rather they get the $4000 processor?

The real scam in audio is spending huge $$$ on component upgrades when a simple cable upgrade could get you most of the way there for relatively little money.

Then when I see people promote this scam here as a way of being intelligent I have to wonder where that comes from. Has the component manufacturing industry really been this effective on making people spend big $$$ on new components? Apparently yes.

OK, now you want data right? According to audio reviewer Thomas Campbell:
" interconnects and speaker cables make the largest per-dollar difference of any component or accessory. "

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue7/signal.htm

I got news for you, you don't have to take any of this on faith. Nearly all of these cable vendors provide risk free in home auditions.

So, stop being scammed by the component manufacturers on spending big $$$ on components. Get good components and unleash 100% of their potential with some decent cables. Remember, interconnects and speaker cables make the largest per dollar difference of ANY component or accessory. Just take the time to test risk free and prove it to yourself. :smile:
 

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Anyone who has been reading the thread here on audio cables must have noticed the fireworks on display. Apparently some shacksters feel that paying a lot of money for high end cables is a scam. I think that is getting it backwards. Think for a moment, if you manufactured speakers let's say why would you want your customers to make their $2000 speakers sound like a $3000 speaker by simply changing speaker cables? That makes 0 sense if you manufacture speakers, of course you want them to buy the $3000 speaker.

Why would you want a customer make your $2000 processor sound like a $4000 processor by changing the power cord and interconnects? Wouldn't you rather they get the $4000 processor?

The real scam in audio is spending huge $$$ on component upgrades when a simple cable upgrade could get you most of the way there for relatively little money.

Then when I see people promote this scam here as a way of being intelligent I have to wonder where that comes from. Has the component manufacturing industry really been this effective on making people spend big $$$ on new components? Apparently yes.

OK, now you want data right? According to audio reviewer Thomas Campbell:
" interconnects and speaker cables make the largest per-dollar difference of any component or accessory. "

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue7/signal.htm

I got news for you, you don't have to take any of this on faith. Nearly all of these cable vendors provide risk free in home auditions.

So, stop being scammed by the component manufacturers on spending big $$$ on components. Get good components and unleash 100% of their potential with some decent cables. Remember, interconnects and speaker cables make the largest per dollar difference of ANY component or accessory. Just take the time to test risk free and prove it to yourself. :smile:
So you would have us believe that there is a conspiracy in the group of manufacturers that purposefully ship components with subpar powers cables to upsell us into more expensive components?
Thomas Campbell is wrong. Room treatments are easily more beneficial than cables. And what about properly setting up your speakers? Even if candy coated magic fairy bling time continuum bending cable DID exist, they would never add more than setup and treatments. To suggest cables are more beneficial is ludicrous. I think speakers make the biggest difference myself.



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Discussion Starter #4
So you would have us believe that there is a conspiracy in the group of manufacturers that purposefully ship components with subpar powers cables to upsell us into more expensive components?
Thomas Campbell is wrong. Room treatments are easily more beneficial than cables. And what about properly setting up your speakers? Even if candy coated magic fairy bling time continuum bending cable DID exist, they would never add more than setup and treatments. To suggest cables are more beneficial is ludicrous. I think speakers make the biggest difference myself.



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I think Thomas Campbell is spot on, and if you believe that speakers make the biggest difference I encourage you to buy bigger and better ones for lots of $$$. I will simply upgrade my speaker cables ( about $150 tops) and get a HUGE upgrade for relatively peanuts.

As for what you choose to believe why not post some data on the cables you tested? If you don't know what to test try reading this if you didn't like the other article:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1003/loudspeakercableshootout.htm
 

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No thanks. My speakers actually sound great with the cables I have.
I found this article ridiculous.
So....what about the conspiracy theory? Where's the proof on that?


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Discussion Starter #6
Another Scam That Ticks Me Off

Here is another scam. Beware of the cable company that claims to "save" you money. Look at the shoddy construction of this Monoprice cable and ask yourself, does it make any sense to partner this type of quality in a system costing thousands of dollars? There is a BIG difference between buying low price cables and just buying low quality merchandise. I think you need to compare at least 3 different brands of cables in various quality ranges before deciding what to go with, just like you would a speaker or turntable.

 

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Discussion Starter #8
No thanks. My speakers actually sound great with the cables I have.
I found this article ridiculous.
So....what about the conspiracy theory? Where's the proof on that?


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The proof is in your listening room and you have to prove it yourself. I am not advocating a cable as you already said you were happy. I am advocating in home risk free auditions to others who want want to see if they can find a less expensive way to upgrade. From the looks of it you may have already dropped $20K+ on your system, you should be happy.
 

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This is a joke right? After reading your first post in this thread I'm finding it difficult to take you seriously. Like Willis my guess is speakers are going to have greater impact than any cable.
 

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Thanks. I am happy, and don't need to prove anything to myself. But you were implying that OEM's were shipping crummy power cables so they could up sell people into more expensive gear. That's the part I'm asking you to provide some proof about.


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Here's a very involved test of power cables. I will admit, it could be argued as not being perfect. However to the claims of BIG improvements, the results were around 49%. The same as flipping a coin! I've read all the links you have posted. I'd love to hear your impressions of this test.


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http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

And the conspiracy? Conjecture I say. But still waiting. It's a big claim.
 

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Wow just wow. If witchdoctor isn't being paid, as he says, for this sort of "promotion" he really should....he's repeating the mantra of the cable charlatans ad nauseum and if anyone benefits from someone taking him seriously, they do. Should at least get a cut....just sayin'.

I know in other threads he's been told by speaker designers and manufacturers this is a bunch of nonsense but he persists! Don Quixote would be proud!
 

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Wow just wow. If witchdoctor isn't being paid, as he says, for this sort of "promotion" he really should....he's repeating the mantra of the cable charlatans ad nauseum and if anyone benefits from someone taking him seriously, they do. Should at least get a cut....just sayin'.

I know in other threads he's been told by speaker designers and manufacturers this is a bunch of nonsense but he persists! Don Quixote would be proud!
I don't think witchdoctor is employed by a cabling company or he would have started inserting links to their site in his signature.

However, his "Expert" Thomas Campbell. Well, I have never heard of him until today.

So statements that say
OK, now you want data right? According to audio reviewer Thomas Campbell:
" interconnects and speaker cables make the largest per-dollar difference of any component or accessory. "
Are dubious at best! (data? there is no data in his review...)

I have emailed asking for more information on the claims Thomas has made and am still awaiting a response. :waiting:
 

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This discussion like many others really serves no point as not everyone believes in both sides, but rather, like most other subjects, there are indeed least two sides. For reasons unknown to me, the non believers find posts that they can unload on while the believers find themselves in the middle of arguments. This is not just for this posts but for most anything else...even the question do all amplifiers sound the same to which the results are pretty close to 50% of the participant voting yes and 50% voting no.

I think I can find as many positive reviews of cable differences as others can find in stating there is no difference...so who is right ? Everyone in that everyone is different and has different priorities. The only trouble that rears its ugly head is those that state firmly that no differences exist without having ever actually tried to hear the differences.

I tend not to believe that cable differences are huge and are more important that changing speakers or room set up but hey that's me. Speakers are in my book the largest contributors to the sound we hear in any given room, period. We must remember however, that everything is built to a price point and not all units have the greatest crossover components or drivers or even internal wiring but all that can be changed should anyone feel the need. I did on my stuff and I changed it, making for a much better sounding speaker.

Thus for me, cables "Can" make a difference, but these differences are small and entirely system and listener dependent. But I believe that everything makes a difference, its just that I or others may not be able to hear the differences. Again, just my belief using my ears and knowledge of music. I remember years ago owning some Hafler gear, amp and preamp that I built from a kit and loving those pieces a good bit. That is until I discovered a company in St. Louis, Musical Concepts, that offered upgrades to either or both units. I bit the bullet and bought the upgrade to the pre amp, which included new board components, caps and such as well as a new power supply and spent a couple days installing everything. Once done I plugged it in and was shocked by the wonderful difference. I had the listening crew over and they were a bit shocked as well just to show it was not just me.

I dont know where I am going with this except why beat up on a guy who believes something, after all he is not running for president :rofl:
Just post a "Hmmm" or something and move along....and then read my signature...it is very true.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Here's a very involved test of power cables. I will admit, it could be argued as not being perfect. However to the claims of BIG improvements, the results were around 49%. The same as flipping a coin! I've read all the links you have posted. I'd love to hear your impressions of this test.


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http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

And the conspiracy? Conjecture I say. But still waiting. It's a big claim.
I think this is an excellent test and thank you for posting. The point is someone actually took the time to listen and compare for themselves. I encourage everyone to get 3 or 4 power cords and see for themselves if it makes a difference in their system. I would never make a purchase based solely on a test or a review, only an in home audition. If I were testing power cords I would begin testing on my source componenent, then test it on my pre-amp, and finally my amp. You can see the editors own conclusion about this test:
The test was a grand and noble experiment at best and a bust at worst. Make of it what you will.

I consider any testing you do in your own home a grand and noble experiment and would encourage everyone to do so under whatever test conditions makes them happy.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Are You Just Mad?

I would be mad if I were soaked by component manufacturers on an endless journey of ugradeitis only to find out I could have achieved the same or better SQ for much less $$$ with wise cable choices.

The ONLY solution is to first become a trained listener to reduce the placebo effect (meaning you don't want to hear a difference therefore you can't). Next you have to get 3 or 4 different types of cables and perform an in home audition yourself. Please post your results.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Look Behind the Curtain

Here is another way component manufacturers get you to part with big $$$. Go to any audio show and visit a booth. You will proudly see speakers, amps, etc on display. What you won't see (unless you look) is that these components have been connected with audiophile cables. The manufacturer neglects to mention that his component only sounds this good because it is being supported with $ cables. Then you get the thing home and wonder why your shiny new amp doesn't sound like the demo--- duh!

Next time you go to a show ask what cables they are using and what they cost. understand if you want the same performance you need to add that amount to your purchase price.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I don't think witchdoctor is employed by a cabling company or he would have started inserting links to their site in his signature.

However, his "Expert" Thomas Campbell. Well, I have never heard of him until today.

So statements that say

Are dubious at best! (data? there is no data in his review...)

I have emailed asking for more information on the claims Thomas has made and am still awaiting a response. :waiting:
Robbo, why not just audition the Signal cables in the review and post your results? Why all the hubub if you can just see for yourself?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
This is a joke right? After reading your first post in this thread I'm finding it difficult to take you seriously. Like Willis my guess is speakers are going to have greater impact than any cable.
In order to determine if this is a joke you need to audition some new cables yourself. Please post your results. I have found it funny that so many people have so many opinions yet never actually tested anything. Wasting $$$ on expensive components is not a joke so please test yourself and post.
 
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