[Savjac]

Well my basic understanding is that the audio signal is AC in nature, which means flow goes in both directions constantly, so how could it make a difference? I've read comments from quite a few electrical engineers who say its nonsense to boot. Let's turn it around, why do you think this directionality has some basis in fact? Have you read some of the nonsense these cable marketers come up with aside from directionality? Its snake oil as far as I can tell and that seems to be the opinion of those who study such things. No science/proof/tests from the cable guys, just claims so I tend to simply see it as nonsense. Can you name any engineers involved with this science of directionality? I seriously doubt the engineering of a cable goes beyond choosing gauge/dielectric and other usual factors, but the marketing department comes up with the direction stuff.

Any engineers out there that can comment?

I am indeed sorry lovinthehd that you believe this negativity feeling that this is all nonsense. It appears that this is already been dismissed by you in that you ask if I have read some of the nonsense the cable marketers come up with aside from directionality. Further is mention that this is snake oil as far as can be told by an opinion of those who study such things. Some of the science proofs and tests that are mentioned are beyond me as I am really not a physicist nor do I have a PhD in engineering that would help me write a paper on this. I can say with some respectability of my background that the engineering of the cable goes far beyond choosing gauge/dielectric and the usual factors although having said that I do agree the marketing departments come up with some strange stuff.

 

[Savjac]

Oops, wasn't done.

The Seeker of Truth benefits from honing the skill of being his own best critic, absent all signs of negativity, for the sake of the clearest possible thinking and reasoning processes. In my own life, I find myself applying this principle toward the seeking of Truth in audio with as much focus and enthusiasm as I do in the seeking of Truth in spirituality. It is a Wonder to me that one can be so dismissive of external evidence, in either of those realms of thought. But, Faith gives permission, and sometimes demands, that we believe and choose and report something to be true that is not in evidence in terms that are currently well understood. It is fascinating that a. faith can find its way into the thought and behavior patterns of hobbyists in an area like audio. And b. That Seekers of spiritual truth seem so often to have no room for critical thinking skills in their collection of Truth seeking tools.

One would think what evidence would be Paramount in the seeking of any kind of Truth. I can tell you that is not always the case.

I have probably said too much, hope that offends no one.

Wonderful post and i cannot feel that you said too much at all.

Frankly I think would be all very hard pressed to find evidence at all levels in seeking any kind of truth, occasionally a belief that a thing is true can as you say lead us to the point theoretically where evidence respects the truth.

 

[FargateOne]

OH please, tell me that we do not need to apply the quantum physic principle of uncertainty (after a certain point in atomic scale world, the instrument itself influences the result) to our tests to find why some cables seem to make differences for ancient cable atheist like me !!!
Are we cursed !?

 

[lovinthehd]

OH please, tell me that we do not need to apply the quantum physic principle of uncertainty (after a certain point in atomic scale world, the instrument itself influences the result) to our tests to find why some cables seem to make differences for ancient cable atheist like me !!!
Are we cursed !?

no! We just need to immerse ourselves in the intergalactic slime known as cable marketing. Once fully anointed you are immune to any reality! Measurements are obviously not necessary let alone any other type of justification other than the magical 10% rule! Go marketers!

 

[AudiocRaver]

Life is full of surprises and I love them.

As evidenced in our DAC and amp evaluations of the last year, the smallest change in thought process or attitude can make the biggest difference. I failed miserably in the blind amp eval exercise, and - after making a subtle yet critical change in my thinking processes during the DAC eval exercise - made a complete turnaround and did quite well at picking the same DAC over and over, based on very subtle audible differences. The mental-procedural change was tiny yet critical.

How significant are our attitudes and beliefs when we do a listening test like we are talking about? If, as a listener begins a blind test, someone makes a comment like, "You would have to be deaf to not pick out the better XYZ-component in this pairing," can intimidation and peer pressure skew one's clarity of thought and ability to do well. I am absolutely certain they can. Pressure, self-doubt, negativity, indigestion, a bad mood, any and all can sway one's clarity. All this points to the importance of

1. double-blind
2. a neutral-friendly test atmosphere

A $50,000 challenge to pick out an amp or cable or whatever is NOT a neutral-friendly test atmosphere. Reputations and personal agendas and large amounts of cash are on the line and the pressure to perform, to prove a point, to WIN, can be immense.

I am all for double-blind except that the complexity in equipment and setting up and executing is already almost overwhelming, so we have never gotten there. I am satisfied with well-executed blind testing in a neutral agenda-free setting where there is no winner or loser whatever the final data may say. I have no problem with sighted testing before hand to get listeners familiar with the gear and what to listen for. Add to that a test procedure that is listener-friendly, puts minimum/no stress or pressure on the listener and helps him feel in control and comfortable with the process and has the simplest selection burden possible, totally free of tricks to throw the listener off or undue complexities. Make the rules of the test clear and simple and stick to them. Respect manufacture recommendations such as directionality or polarity or right- / left-handedness or whatever. Be open-minded and give it claimed difference a chance to be heard.

 

[AudiocRaver]

Are we cursed !?

You are just noticing it?:devil:

 

[lovinthehd]

I am indeed sorry lovinthehd that you believe this negativity feeling that this is all nonsense. It appears that this is already been dismissed by you in that you ask if I have read some of the nonsense the cable marketers come up with aside from directionality. Further is mention that this is snake oil as far as can be told by an opinion of those who study such things. Some of the science proofs and tests that are mentioned are beyond me as I am really not a physicist nor do I have a PhD in engineering that would help me write a paper on this. I can say with some respectability of my background that the engineering of the cable goes far beyond choosing gauge/dielectric and the usual factors although having said that I do agree the marketing departments come up with some strange stuff.

LOL obviously I am also indeed sorry that you feel all this marketing has value or that you believe there is engineering involved in directionality of cables.

 

[Savjac]

LOL obviously I am also indeed sorry that you feel all this marketing has value or that you believe there is engineering involved in directionality of cables.

I would change the words "feel all this marketing" to I am unsure if this marketing has any value as marketing is more or less meant to sell a product and not much more. What I am interested in is the validity of the statements made by those that mark the cables and sell them to consumers. At present I am unsure of what value if any, one way cables have. Therein lies the reason for my post.

I will be focusing my attention on these sets of cables in my own system with as much of an objective mind set as possible, considering just a few years ago, I without any experience to back up my beliefs, thought, as do you, that these claims were nuts. Recent experiences over the last several years have me believing much more than I used to. Only way to know for sure is to do it so I will.

 

[FargateOne]

LOL obviously I am also indeed sorry that you feel all this marketing has value or that you believe there is engineering involved in directionality of cables.

I believe not a word in marketing about cable because, at least, I have the chance to test it at home and return it after a month if I am not satisfy. After that, I decide with all the uncertainty we are discussing here. I have made a little not so scientific test (http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/remotes-cables-accessories-tweaks/142610-i-cable-atheist-16.html#post1406426 post 158). It does not meet the standards that we are talking about here. I know, power cords are not the best to test because I am sure that power cords are more likely snake oil than interconnect RCA cables.
Hopefully, someone here can push the experience to an other level. At home I don't have the place or the equipment to do it (and I say nothing about WAF !!). But, I will (soon hopefully) repeat my experience this way (like someone has suggested) : 1- standard power cord of the receiver directly in the outlet, to measure with REW; 2- snakes cables and snakes bar from the outlet to the receiver, to measure with Rew; 3- go back to std power cord directly in the outlet and to measure wih Rew. I'll send the results.
It will not be good, but it will be better than nothing and be a beginning.

 

[Boxozaxu]

If I were you I would get three new power cords to audition and plug them into that Onkyo receiver and test them for 25 days. My experience is this is much cheaper then buying a new receiver and will often provide better SQ than even the receivers one or two levels up the line, maybe even their flagship. Please don't believe me, just try it and see and you will have your proof.

This reviewer uses the same power cord I do and specifically says it made a bigger difference than upgrading his CDP

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-virtual-dynamics-nite-power-cord-power-cord

Will my system sound even better if I bypass the power cord completely and run the Romex 14/2 wire from my outlet directly into my receiver? OR is there something special that the power cord is doing to the electricity as it passes through it?

 

[willis7469]

Will my system sound even better if I bypass the power cord completely and run the Romex 14/2 wire from my outlet directly into my receiver? OR is there something special that the power cord is doing to the electricity as it passes through it?

I was gonna ask this same thing. I've done this before but not for the same reason. Hmmm...


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[lcaillo]

I remember Enid Lumley. What are you suggesting? :foottap:

 

[tonyvdb]

Its simple to make a power cord from Romex. Good question and I already know the answer..."No difference"
You can buy C13 ends and make your own for a fraction of what high end places charge for the entire cable.

 

[3dbinCanada]

NOTE: reversing speaker cables is potentially hazardous and/or not recommended for various reasons.
1. MIT uses an articulated polarity mechanism attached at the speaker end and may not work as effectively if at all when attached to the amplifier
2. when a soft ceramic ferrite magnet is attached optimally to within 6-8" the speaker although this type cable may be safely reversed the EMI RFI reduction effect is minimized
3. in cases where the speaker cable is shielded often the shield is attached to the amplifier ground only leaving the speaker cable shield unattached at the speaker ground terminal of the RCA

In most other simple speaker cable connections, although the manufacturer may recommend a direction for connections these straight wire cable connections may be reversed relatively safely - following the manufacturers safety recommendations for disconnecting and connecting speaker cables.

Where are you getting this?

 

[willis7469]

Reversing speaker cables is potentially hazardous? Wow...
I've knotted mine by pushing in the wrong direction. Is that the same?


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[Savjac]

I remember Enid Lumley. What are you suggesting? :foottap:

I loved reading her posts, she could tell the difference between a 6' cable and a 5'10" cable ...or so she wrote. If I remember correctly she spoke to the possible problems with cable direction some 20+ years ago right up until she passed.
She was the one that taught me about how to tell if a component is plugged into the wall correctly.

Fond memories of Enid and her boss, Harry.

 

[tonyvdb]

tying a knot in your speaker wire could also be a hazard as the electrons might not slow down enough at the sharp bend and fall out of the cable and start a fire :nerd2:

 

[willis7469]

I remember Enid Lumley. What are you suggesting? :foottap:

http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/687awsi/#rUPxuKtiYYZyrdBB.97

Is this what you mean Leonard?


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[willis7469]

tying a knot in your speaker wire could also be a hazard as the electrons might not slow down enough at the sharp bend and fall out of the cable and start a fire :nerd2:

Hahaha! Good point! My Yamaha amp has been engineered for great handling, so this is less a concern for me but others may benefit.
Reminds me of a gal that used to clean my office. She saw an extension cord on the floor, and promptly picked up, and propped it so it was facing up, and then explained that all the electricity would escape if it were to lay on the ground. Wow, laughed about that one a lot.


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[Savjac]

Its simple to make a power cord from Romex. Good question and I already know the answer..."No difference"
You can buy C13 ends and make your own for a fraction of what high end places charge for the entire cable.

To paraphrase Arthur C. Clarke, "When a distinguished scientist states that something doesn't matter, he is very probably wrong."
tee hee:innocent: