[Harpmaker]

From what I'm finding it sounds like these pearls are being sold in both liquid and powder forms. :huh:

In the liquid form I believe the base is the same used for Universal Tints like are used in paint stores (they don't have separate tints for oil and water based paints). I think it is some form of glycol. If I remember right, it is a liquid that is soluble in both oil and water based paints, but only up to a certain point then it starts affecting how the paint drys and such things.

The term "Xyrellic" seems to indicate the pearl is made with aluminum dioxide instead of mica. I've read that Auto Air colors are available with them too, but I can't confirm that at AA's site so I'm not taking that as gospel just yet.

I'm still a bit worried about the size of the flake, but who knows?

If you test any of these please send me a sample! They sound fascinating, but my dance card is full for the foreseeable future.

I believe "the shack's first DIY offering" refers to Black Widow, but the way my memory has been failing me lately... whoa.

 

[mechman]

I believe "the shack's first DIY offering" refers to Black Widow, but the way my memory has been failing me lately... whoa.

:yes:

Sounds like we've got an excellent tester/developer on our hands.

 

[DavidHawke]

I plan to test the white & gold Xyrellic pearls shortly, as a possible reflectant for my experimental Grayhawk clone. Now that you mentioned that Createx may be using Xyrellic in some of their pearls, I'm going to pick up a small bottle of the Auto Air Pearlized Gold and try it as well. The local Michaels sells 2oz bottles of it for $4.49.

I also ordered some powder form automotive grade "white micro-pearl" from seller "thecoatingshop" on Ebay. He claims it is the same grade used by House of Kolors, 10 microns or less, and he's much cheaper than HOK ($10 shipped per OZ, rather than $60 per OZ for HOK).

I'll mix some test panels of all of these into Valspar Ultra White IFE and I'll mail them to you for inspection, once I get them made. The Stewart sample card will go out in the mail to Harpmaker today.

 

[Harpmaker]

The Auto Air colors that are supposed to be Xyrellic are the 452x series (the Cosmic Sparkle colors). http://www.chicagoairbrushsupply.com/aucocospco.html

I'll be looking for the samples in the mail. Thanks! Will get 'em back to you ASAP. :T

 

[DavidHawke]

Thanks! Is it water based?

 

[Harpmaker]

Thanks! Is it water based?

Yes. the Cosmic Sparkle line are water-based.

An odd thing to me is that the MSDS for them at Dick Blick mentions nothing about aluminum dioxide, but it still says they contain mica. I can only surmise that it is an old data sheet. :dontknow:
http://www.dickblick.com/products/auto-air-cosmic-sparkle-colors-series-4500/, the MSDS links are on the far right of the page for each color.

I believe all of Auto-Air's paints are water-based; although their latest paint series on their website is a "waterborne" paint. I don't quite understand the difference, and what is really strange is that the bottles are still marked as "water-based"! :scratchhead:

BTW David, welcome to the ranks of the Screen Mix Developers! :T
It's a blessing, and it's a curse. :rofl:

 

[DavidHawke]

Thanks. Hopefully I can make some worthwhile contributions, that help advance the hobby.

I picked up a bottle of Cosmic Sparkle Silver today. $18 for an four oz bottle... ouch! It had better be good! I also picked up some Auto Air Pearl Silver, AA Pearlized Gold, Liquitex Basics Silver and several 3 gram sample bottles of some decent grade German made dry pearls in several shades of white, silver, and gold. I got enough supplies to keep me busy experimenting for a few days. Haven't had a chance to mix any test samples with any of it, but I'll report back once I do.

 

[Stropdas]

Hi David. The Xyrellic Cosmis Sparkle Silver sounds very nice. In another topic you mentioned about a 30/70mix beeing like studiotek 130. That's a white screen. It doesn't darken the base that much. If a more greyish base would be used maybe it would be better in blacks white still keep good whites i guess. Do you have more results? The powder you got from thecoatingstore is the Skreamin' Pearl Crystal White that was mentioned earlier? They ship to europe so if this is good we could also buy from here. Also for the other things you bought to mix? Don't want to rush but I'm refreshing this page daily hoping to hear from you

Would the ideal sparkle-ingredient to be neutral to the mix while being reflective as much as you want, so you can chose the gain just by calculating how much to add to a base? Then you can go to black paint with a lot of sparkle (maybe a lot of hotspotting then)

 

[DavidHawke]

Actually, the Xyrellic pearl I tried was made by Createx. It was Createx Auto Air Cosmic Sparkle. I have not tried the "Screamin White" brand of Xyrellic yet. I'm sure I will eventually try it though.

I did some comparisons to the Auto Air Xyrellic, with less costly craft grade pearls to determine if it truly was brighter. So far, I compared about 13 different brands of craft, artist, and faux finishing pearls, mixed 30/70 with Valspar Ultra White Flat Latex Enamel. Most of them exhibited little visible sparkle or apparent reflective enhancement, compared to the Auto Air Cosmic Sparkle Xyrellic.
The following four came the closest...
Delta Ceramacoat Metallic Silver (02603)
Createx Auto Air "Pearl Satin Gold" (GJF24-24)
Folk Art Outdoor Metallics "Pure Gold" (1654)
Pearl EX #657 Sparkle Gold (German made powder, available from art supply stores)

I am including gold pearls in my experimentation, because I am under the impression that a gold reflective may be required to achieve the final gray mix color that I am striving for.

Please bear in mind that my measurement is very "seat of the pants" and non-scientific at this point. However, by visual inspection under bright sunlight, I'd have to say that the Xyrellic looks approximately 20% more reflective than the closest contenders. Once I finalize a tinted gray formula, that I feel is somewhat worthy... I'll ask Harpmaker to take some readings of it. I don't want to waste his time on the minor preliminary comparisons.

The Pearl Ex powders and Kustom Shop's "Diamond Crystal Pearls" and "Ice Crystal Pearls" are also very promising. However, I am holding off on further experiments with them, until I receive my gram scale and more syringes for mixing and testing micro-batches.
I need the digital scale to know exactly what my mixed proportions are, so that others can repeat them accurately. They are very expensive, so I need to be very careful with my batches. At $17-$30 per ounce, I can't afford to waste any or guess at mixes.

I actually have a nice vacation break from my day job coming up shortly. I hope to get back on track with my experimental formulas, and post results soon. Sorry to be so slow, but I didn't realize that anyone was waiting anxiously for my results.

 

[DavidHawke]

I forgot to address the Studio Tek 130 comment...
Yes the Studio Tek is definitely a white screen. Most people simply use Behr UPW Flat, when they want a DIY white screen. Or, if they want a high gain white screen, they usually paint over the Behr UPW with a pearlized clear. However, I found that pearlized clears can be tricky to apply, and that roller marks can show up in the image if you're not very careful when you apply them. Pearlized clears also tend to exhibit optical shimmer as well. The potency of the Xyrellic pearls may offer DIY'ers the ability to effectively pearlize the white paint directly, without having to add so much that the paint "hot spots". I found that a 30/70 mix definitely appeared to boost gain, and it went on to my small test panel very smoothly. The only drawback is the expense. It would run about $60+ per quart to mix it, based on the cost of three 4oz bottles Auto Air Cosmic Sparkle. You could possibly substitute one cheaper bottle of Auto Air Pearl White PJC17-22, or Ceramacoat Pearl Finish #02601, to keep the cost down without compromising the end result too much. However, $60 per quart is still cheaper than Goo Systems etc, and definitely cheaper than shelling out for a StudioTek 130.

 

[Stropdas]

When the beamer itself is a few hundred bucks a good paint of around $100 to make a huge difference is no problem for me. No need to appologize. I'm just curious for every piece of new information It sure is to pricey just to play and see what happends without thinking trough. If I had the money to test it all I would buy everything possible just for the fun of it

If you're looking for a scale: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1165
Mine's working good and it's a low price

 

[Altern8]

Does anyone know of a Craft Metallic Silver equivalent in New Zealand or Australia?

 

[Harpmaker]

Does anyone know of a Craft Metallic Silver equivalent in New Zealand or Australia?

Not at the moment, but there is hope. We are making slow, but positive, progress in this. The problem is that designing these mixes is not our "day job" and we have to work them in as time permits; that and several members of our team having had recent health issues slowed experimentation even further.

 

[Altern8]

No worries, I have seen a few metallic art paints for sale but have no way of knowing if they contain mica or metal flakes etc.

I really appreciate the time you guys spend doing this. An odd hobby but strangely alluring! I am a development scientist and this stuff appeals to me. Just bought myself a Wagner CS so I must be getting serious!

 

[Harpmaker]

No worries, I have seen a few metallic art paints for sale but have no way of knowing if they contain mica or metal flakes etc.

The paint that we are testing as a sort of alternative to CSMS is actually a mica-based paint. We have found that the negative refractive attributes of mica can be controlled if enough opaque paint is in the mix. Would you have any problems getting the Liquitex BASICS Matt paints locally or via mail order/internet?

I really appreciate the time you guys spend doing this. An odd hobby but strangely alluring! I am a development scientist and this stuff appeals to me. Just bought myself a Wagner CS so I must be getting serious!

I know what you mean about strangely alluring! I had no idea DIY screen mixes would become my primary hobby when I got into this about 2 years ago. :bigsmile: I can tell you it's been a wild ride so far with no end in sight. There are some that feel that everything that can be learned about DIY screens has been done; they are SO wrong!

 

[Altern8]

Liquitex is available in NZ!

As I'm making a double sided screen I have two choices to make. Currently I'm experimenting with Black Widow for the "dark side". The "light side" will either be an N8.5-9 neutral grey, a lightened BW mix or an NZ C&S if I can get it right!

 

[Harpmaker]

Liquitex is available in NZ!

You would specifically need their BASICS MATT series of paints (like these).

As I'm making a double sided screen I have two choices to make. Currently I'm experimenting with Black Widow for the "dark side". The "light side" will either be an N8.5-9 neutral grey, a lightened BW mix or an NZ C&S if I can get it right!

If you can get the Liquitex BASICS MATT paints ('Titanium White' and 'Silver'), and would be willing to experiment with a N8.7 mix (perhaps it could be brought up to a true N9) let me know. This is the mix that is slated to become Cream&Sugar International™ if things continue to work out right.

 

[Altern8]

If you can get the Liquitex BASICS MATT paints ('Titanium White' and 'Silver'), and would be willing to experiment with a N8.7 mix (perhaps it could be brought up to a true N9) let me know. This is the mix that is slated to become Cream&Sugar International™ if things continue to work out right.

I have seen the BASICS range here so I would be very interested in trying this out.

I have a range of mixes that I'm testing now, 2 lightened BW, Straight BW and even a darkened BW. Also have some N8.4 Grey (212 212 212) in eggshell (lowest sheen they had) and mixes of Dulux Vivid white with Black for comparison testing.

EDIT: I can get both Liquitex BASICS MATT Titanium White and Silver locally! Hopefully I can get a base paint to match the requirements too...

 

[Harpmaker]

I have seen the BASICS range here so I would be very interested in trying this out.

I have a range of mixes that I'm testing now, 2 lightened BW, Straight BW and even a darkened BW. Also have some N8.4 Grey (212 212 212) in eggshell (lowest sheen they had) and mixes of Dulux Vivid white with Black for comparison testing.

EDIT: I can get both Liquitex BASICS MATT Titanium White and Silver locally! Hopefully I can get a base paint to match the requirements too...

Alrighty then, I'll start a new thread on this and call this experimental mix HTS-X3. And there is no "base paint".:unbelievable::nerd: