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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

Been lurking off and on for the last couple of years. Just have not had the funds to really get started the way I want to.

I was gifted a Sony str-d915, not sure if it's worth using, if not I can always use it for some cheap outdoor speakers no big deal.

What I am looking for is a 2.0 kit to start with, for my living room television. I do have the tools available to build the enclosures if plans were provided. However I am open to buying pre-made cabinets to save time because I work 55-75 hours a week in a 6on/3off schedule. So basically off days are when this will get done, not in a rush at all.

I would like towers because I don't have a traditional entertainment center, I use a HTPC on a small cabinet under the TV. My budget is ~$1000.00USD for the speakers and reciever. I do not need 3-d, 4k, or atmos support. The system will be used for 80% movies/20% music. The room is 20ft x 12ft with a few openings into adjacent rooms. However this is a rental property so I am not looking to dial into the perfect match for the space. Next step is to add subs so tons of bass is not my goal.

Eventually I want to have a 5.2 or 7.2 setup that these first speakers can grow into as rears, when I am able to build/upgrade to new mains and a matching center. Unfortunately I don't think a center channel is going to be in the budget right now.

I have been looking into CSS or zaph kits but would like some suggestions because it's been a while since I priced anything out. What do you guys think?

Thanks,
89

:help:
Tl;dr
What is the best bang for my buck I can get with ~$1000USD for a 2.0 starter stereo for 80% movies/20% music that I can add subs to later? (DIY kit preferred but I'm not afraid to buy used in the classifieds.)
 

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Hi,

Been lurking off and on for the last couple of years. Just have not had the funds to really get started the way I want to.

I was gifted a Sony str-d915, not sure if it's worth using, if not I can always use it for some cheap outdoor speakers no big deal.

What I am looking for is a 2.0 kit to start with, for my living room television. I do have the tools available to build the enclosures if plans were provided. However I am open to buying pre-made cabinets to save time because I work 55-75 hours a week in a 6on/3off schedule. So basically off days are when this will get done, not in a rush at all.

I would like towers because I don't have a traditional entertainment center, I use a HTPC on a small cabinet under the TV. My budget is ~$1000.00USD for the speakers and reciever. I do not need 3-d, 4k, or atmos support. The system will be used for 80% movies/20% music. The room is 20ft x 12ft with a few openings into adjacent rooms. However this is a rental property so I am not looking to dial into the perfect match for the space. Next step is to add subs so tons of bass is not my goal.

Eventually I want to have a 5.2 or 7.2 setup that these first speakers can grow into as rears, when I am able to build/upgrade to new mains and a matching center. Unfortunately I don't think a center channel is going to be in the budget right now.

I have been looking into CSS or zaph kits but would like some suggestions because it's been a while since I priced anything out. What do you guys think?

Thanks,
89

:help:
Tl;dr
What is the best bang for my buck I can get with ~$1000USD for a 2.0 starter stereo for 80% movies/20% music that I can add subs to later? (DIY kit preferred but I'm not afraid to buy used in the classifieds.)
is that $1000 including just the two speakers or does that include the new receiver as well?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I am thinking the receiver is going to have to be in the $1000 budget.

Is it possible to "daisy chain" receivers to power new additions to the system? Like when I add more speakers can I use the original receiver in addition to the new one to power them? Or do I need to upgrade the receiver or start with one that has my end goal in mind of 5.2(7.2)? The end goal is probably 1-3 years away.
 

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Its best for a receiver with your end goal in mind.

I'd say $400 for the receiver and a pair of seos 12s from diysoundgroup.com should fit you nicely. The tempests most likely
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the replies!

I am a little confused however, if I'm looking correctly the speaker you suggest has a 12" woofer and a compression driver.

With these speakers will they eliminate the need for dedicated subwoofers later?

Is it possible to use these as rears in the future, or add a matching center channel?
 

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Thanks for the replies!

I am a little confused however, if I'm looking correctly the speaker you suggest has a 12" woofer and a compression driver.

With these speakers will they eliminate the need for dedicated subwoofers later?

Is it possible to use these as rears in the future, or add a matching center channel?
No they won't eliminate the need for sub's. These 12 inchers are woofers. Not sub woofers and aren't tuned that low anyways. They can be used as rears later. Especially if you just build more. Although it might be better to keep them as mains and use the karma 10s or the alpha 8s as surrounds. Using the tempests as surrounds would be a bit overkill. As for matching center. Just build a 3rd one of the tempests and use it as a center. That's what many of us prefer to do rather than compromise with a horizontal center
 

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Discussion Starter #7
When receivers list 7.1 vs 7.2 is this strictly due the number of outputs?

In a 7.2 system are the 2 subwoofers sent identical signals? Or are they meant to perform different roles like directionality or different frequencies?

Is it possible to run 2 subwoofers with identical output using a 7.1 receiver?

I'm wondering because I see some people have more than 2 subwoofers in their home theatres but I don't see any 7.4 receivers out there.
 

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When receivers list 7.1 vs 7.2 is this strictly due the number of outputs?

In a 7.2 system are the 2 subwoofers sent identical signals? Or are they meant to perform different roles like directionality or different frequencies?

Is it possible to run 2 subwoofers with identical output using a 7.1 receiver?

I'm wondering because I see some people have more than 2 subwoofers in their home theatres but I don't see any 7.4 receivers out there.
A 7.2 receiver just has twin sub outputs. Its not really necessary though since there is no difference in the two ports. Just makes it dummy proof. Just get an rca Y splitter
 

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Discussion Starter #9
No they won't eliminate the need for sub's. These 12 inchers are woofers. Not sub woofers and aren't tuned that low anyways. They can be used as rears later. Especially if you just build more. Although it might be better to keep them as mains and use the karma 10s or the alpha 8s as surrounds. Using the tempests as surrounds would be a bit overkill. As for matching center. Just build a 3rd one of the tempests and use it as a center. That's what many of us prefer to do rather than compromise with a horizontal center
Ok thanks. Why is a horizontal center a compromise? I see them so often I thought the wider soundstage was a benefit not a hinderance.

Soundstage is another question of mine, would these tempests need stands? I do not currently have anything to place these on. I was thinking a shape like the Fusion 4 Quad was going to be suggested, can you tell me why you suggest the tempest over a tower for my needs? Sorry just learning and want to know your thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
A 7.2 receiver just has twin sub outputs. Its not really necessary though since there is no difference in the two ports. Just makes it dummy proof. Just get an rca Y splitter
Ok thanks again, I guess this is what most do when using 2+ subwoofers.

So if I find a 7.1 receiver that is a better deal than the 7.2 I can safely just choose it instead with no loss in quality of the final product?
 

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Ok thanks again, I guess this is what most do when using 2+ subwoofers.

So if I find a 7.1 receiver that is a better deal than the 7.2 I can safely just choose it instead with no loss in quality of the final product?
most of the time they get dual sub outputs on a 7.2 receiver by just using an internal y splitter and creating 2 ports... so no, there's no difference in quality. otherwise us HT nuts who have 6+ subs on the same receiver would be in trouble :D
 

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Ok thanks. Why is a horizontal center a compromise? I see them so often I thought the wider soundstage was a benefit not a hinderance.

Soundstage is another question of mine, would these tempests need stands? I do not currently have anything to place these on. I was thinking a shape like the Fusion 4 Quad was going to be suggested, can you tell me why you suggest the tempest over a tower for my needs? Sorry just learning and want to know your thoughts.
there's a lot of articles on why horizontal MTM designs are compromises, but this is one of the most succinct ones

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=89614


as for stands... they'll need stands... but you'll wanna custom build them. cuz the seos desings are beasts for depth and width. OR you can actually build the stands INTO the seos speakers and have them built as a full tower.... basically just extending the height of the speaker and installing a false bottom to keep the original internal volume for the actual speaker. there's a million different ways to skin that cat.

as for tower vs. seos, vs. bookshelf... its' more a form factor between the two. not because of any inherent benefit of a tower. a seos tempest will have roughly the same volume as you standard tower speaker you normally see in a store, but because of it's width (12 inch woofers and a horn) it needs a shorter heighth to still keep the internal volume needed ... basic geometry really. to keep the same internal volume it needs to re-adjust the measurements of the external width, height etc
 

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Ok thanks. Why is a horizontal center a compromise? I see them so often I thought the wider soundstage was a benefit not a hinderance.

Soundstage is another question of mine, would these tempests need stands? I do not currently have anything to place these on. I was thinking a shape like the Fusion 4 Quad was going to be suggested, can you tell me why you suggest the tempest over a tower for my needs? Sorry just learning and want to know your thoughts.
An MTM has a very directed off axis response since two woofers spaced far apart are generating the same frequencies. The dispersion is very wide in the same physical alignment as the orientation of the woofers, and response is lobed when its rotated the other way. What that means is an MTM is best suited and will have a very good dispersion if placed vertically. If placed horizontally, the narrow dispersion is now oriented to sweep across your room. Nothing is wrong with a horizontal MTM, but physics will only let it have flat response for about a ten degree window in front of the speaker. Most rooms have more seating than what fits in a ten degree window in front of the center channel...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Alright I'm sold on aiming for 3 matching front speakers to make things simple for me.

Man these Fusion 12's are huge. And if I need to build them onto stands, that is even crazier. Going to need to check on the WAF.

Also I am wondering about being able to power the Fusion 12's, for my receiver budget of ~$350-400 I am seeing power outputs of ~100-150W per channel. Will this not be way under powering these speakers? For large cones used for mids like these don't they perform best with higher power? How much quality am I sacrificing by playing these at <200Watts per channel and then not turning them up all the way all the time?

For TWO Fusion-12's with crossover assembly and buying the flat packs it comes to $838.00

For THREE Fusion-10's also with XO assembly and flat packs it comes to $819.00

What do 2 Fusion 12's offer me that the 3 10's won't?

What would you choose for your first step into a home theatre?

If I was less concerned with max value and more with SQ in the long run, what might I do differently?
 

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Alright I'm sold on aiming for 3 matching front speakers to make things simple for me.

Man these Fusion 12's are huge. And if I need to build them onto stands, that is even crazier. Going to need to check on the WAF.

Also I am wondering about being able to power the Fusion 12's, for my receiver budget of ~$350-400 I am seeing power outputs of ~100-150W per channel. Will this not be way under powering these speakers? For large cones used for mids like these don't they perform best with higher power? How much quality am I sacrificing by playing these at <200Watts per channel and then not turning them up all the way all the time?

For TWO Fusion-12's with crossover assembly and buying the flat packs it comes to $838.00

For THREE Fusion-10's also with XO assembly and flat packs it comes to $819.00

What do 2 Fusion 12's offer me that the 3 10's won't?

What would you choose for your first step into a home theatre?

If I was less concerned with max value and more with SQ in the long run, what might I do differently?

lol, they are pretty big. wait till you get into the sentinels or cheap thrills...those with the 15 inch woofers are monstrous. my wife nearly had a heart attack when I made 3 of those for my mains and center.


as for wattage, you'll do fine. these things are EXTREMELY high sensitivity drivers and can be powered with most receivers. I have a 110 watt per channel receiver that makes these things tear walls down. all that extra wattage means is you can power them to louder measures. remember for every doubling of the wattage you only get an extra 3 DB headroom

the fusion 12's will play lower on their own without a sub, but the difference between the Fusion 12's and Fusion 10's with a sub is fairly negligible.

you can also save yourself some money and not buy the assembled crossovers, it's really not hard to assemble them yourself
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Yea I can probably get by assembling them myself, I've got access to a soldering gun and someone that has a bit of experience.

Currently my setup is just the TV speakers, and not likely to change unless I build something. So anything is going to be a huge improvement.

I am definitely going to add subs in the future. With this in mind and considering I have a bit of space limitations I think I might go with the 10's.

Any comments on this route in the long run? Will I be able to get to reference level with 3 Fusion 10's and 2 subs when I have the funds to add them?
2 rears will be the next step after that. (Possibly 2 more speakers lastly if I get a 7.1 receiver)
 

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Yea I can probably get by assembling them myself, I've got access to a soldering gun and someone that has a bit of experience.

Currently my setup is just the TV speakers, and not likely to change unless I build something. So anything is going to be a huge improvement.

I am definitely going to add subs in the future. With this in mind and considering I have a bit of space limitations I think I might go with the 10's.

Any comments on this route in the long run? Will I be able to get to reference level with 3 Fusion 10's and 2 subs when I have the funds to add them?
2 rears will be the next step after that. (Possibly 2 more speakers lastly if I get a 7.1 receiver)
you can never have too much subs :D...

as for reference... most likely , depending on your room size... you find you need a bit more oomph, you can always switch the Fusion 10 pure's to the rears and make something like the tempest or sentinels
 

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What about scaling down a bit to start and do the fusion6 or 8 and then move them to surrounds when ready? 3 of yhe 6's with flat packs is $354 before shipping. Then you can spend more on a reciever. I would recommend one with the audyssey xt32 and atmos to future proof. I like to buy them refurbed to save money, joining club onkyo (free) gets you access to the refurb stuff.

My 2.

Pete
 

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I'd do the fusion 8's at the very lowest. the fusion 6's wouldn't do very well as surrounds if he did anything above a fusion 10 or fusion 8 as the mains.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks for the suggestions.

What is a good ratio for spending on a receiver vs the rest of equipment.

Mike you said I should buy a receiver aiming for my final goal, so what do you think about spending a bit more on the receiver up front? Am I going to be able to spend ~$400 on a receiver and be able to power 2 fusion 8's and 3 fusion 10's(12's) adequately?

I didn't know the rears needed to be so big or had to match the mains in a particular way.
Is it possible to wire 2 speakers together as a center? I know the kits change over time, so if I get 3 Fusion-8's now, and want to use them later as my surrounds, I'm going to need 1 more, and if the kit is different I don't want to have to replace them all. So then if I'm going to need to buy 4 of them, that kind of puts me back in the price range of 3 10's or 2 12's(a little less but only about 10%). If this is the case I would probably just go for the bigger speakers right away.

So confused >.>

Also just as a general concept question, if I go the route of horns now, I am basically committed to using horns for the entire system correct? Mixing horns and dome or ribbon tweeters is not a thing is it? I have not really heard a set of horn speakers before. The reviews are amazing though so I don't think I would dislike them.


And for a totally off topic question, is there anything I can do with my old *free* Sony str-d915? Could it power anything I have been considering so far? I think it is a 3 channel 115W per channel receiver according to the specs.
What about 2 very cheap speakers for a garage just for something to have on my breezeway and while I am working out. (I am buying a squat rack for my garage)
Any small sealed kits out there under $100 or close to it?
 
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