[johnnyfamous]

I have begun the box, I made a few modifications from the CSS plans. To add a little height my box is 19"x19"x22. I plan on putting it between a couple arm chairs and want it high enough to hold a lamp and drink.

The other deviation, I had Bob send me a Bash 300 with the kit instead of the 500. With a three year old and a new born, my budget is tight and the $100.00 i saved can go to diapers:gulp:
my volume levels are always low (cant wake the little ones) so i figured aside from the decrease in max volume the combination would still be a good replacement for the current 15 year old 10" junker i bought from future shop years ago. I am selling it cheap if anyones interested:rofl:

Your thoughts on the difference between the 300 or 500 would be interesting?

 

[johnnyfamous]

I ordered my solid wood veneer off ebay, a great scource for unusual veneer is small quantities. If you have lots of cash you might be best off with vinyl backed veneer in a 4x8 sheet, but still then you dont get the rare stuff.

pictured bellow are birds eye maple that I plan on using on the top and macassar ebony with a figured pattern, very rare. in fact I have never seen ebony with a figure before.

I also won on ebay some inlay strips that I plan on using as a divider between the two woods.

 

[johnnyfamous]

spending $850cdn per month on daycare at the moment. it hurts!

was hoping to continue with the box this weekend, but it appears my wife has other plans for me, christmas lights!

 

[johnnyfamous]

LOL, i want the ditto house!

 

[johnnyfamous]

Pro would be a stretch. I have had allot of wood working and finishing experience both professionally and personally. I dont generally do things by the book, but opt for my own way using the limited tools that I have learning along the way.

have a look at the speakers I built in the link on my signature. I used the same veneering methods I plan to use here.

This will however be my first inlay. I plan to build a guitar one day and wanted to practice inlays so I thought this would be a good opportunity to learn.

 

[johnnyfamous]

[/QUOTE] how did you glue down the veneer? The job looks very good. I have done a fair bit. But I cheat and use different methods like a vacuum press and other methods. Been a professional cabinet maker off and on for over 22 years.

Mark[/QUOTE]





what I would give for a vacuum press! thought of making one but the idea didnt last long. I use contact cement for the most part, up until now I have had no issues with delaminating so I hope they will stand the test of time:sweat: Think I will be fine.

I have not used a grain filler on the last speakers I built as I wanted to see the grain a little, thought on this build I might try a filler though, any recomendations on grain filler products? I have been using mowhawk brand lacquers. As this will be an end table I want the finish strong enough to take cups on the surface and dont want any pores where spills will go, not to say I wont kill whomever spills a drinkaddle:

 

[johnnyfamous]

Made some headway today. Began working on the "top plate", Not sure what you call them.? As you can see in the pictures I dont use a router to cut out my speaker holes. I dont own a plunge router or a circle guide, luckely I have a good jig saw and a steady hand:bigsmile: The sub and passive test fits looked good, hopefully will get some more work done this week.

 

[johnnyfamous]

If you have an air compressor you have 3/4 of a vacuum press. The last quarter is making a bag. Easy to do. And then using the input on the air compressor ( the side where there is usually a filter actually sucks air into the compressor right! ) to create a vacuum in the bag. To make a bag use what ever you have on hand. I've used heavy vapor barrier or the bags I make for reuse are the plastic old ladies cover everything with! You know the kind. I use Tuck tape the red stuff to seal it up on the edges. Any normal air compressor fittings work in vacuum or compressed mode. And to seal up the bag I roll it over itself and clamp it between two boards. Once the vacuum sets it self seals.

You can draw about 14 psi with a vauum press which is over one ton per square foot. I've broken objects by drawing to high of a vacuum with my pump that I picked up from a surplus store 15 years ago.

As for finish and filler.

Lacquer has only one redeeming quality. It dries fast. I personally use it on commercial stuff only. It has no durability in a home environment. You want a good polyurethane. Water borne is faster drying but not as hard as solvent borne. For easy to get stuff try Home Despot and MinWax urethane fast dry. You can put on three coats in a day with it. I know it is much slower than lacquer but it is resistant to water and most cleaners unlike lacquer. As for filler if you like Mohawk stick with it. They make good stuff. MJ Cambell also make good stuff. I sometimes also use Elmers fill n finish from Home Despot. The golden Oak is almost uncanny in it's ability to blend in. And a couple of others can be blended to color most problems away when needed.

Mark

Thanks mark, I would love to see some pictures or tutorial on your vaccume press in action. you make it sound easy:gulp:

I started Painting and Decorating when I was 16, had red seal Jurneymen TQ by the time I was 19. I have trained and taught many courses on finishing. I left the trade 5 years ago for several reasons, mostly because I was bored. :clap:

Terms are not what they once were, "Lacquer" is nitrocellulose dissolved in solvent , it offered, excellent flow out, poor water resistance,poor mar resistance, But was used mostly for its Super fast dry and ability to be used in most shop enviroments and still give a high quality finish without the need for buffing. You can still find it on cheap furniture from China. With its Cons out weighing its Pros manufacturers starting using Alkyd resins (among others), to combine the same flow,and finish properties of Nitrocellulose but the wear resistance of Alkyd based coatings. The term Lacquer is now used mostly to describe Lacquer " like" properties. There are so called Waterborne lacquers on the market that do not have the same spray abilities, at least i cant spray them anyway:R. Pre cat Lacquers offer me the ability to spray in my dusty shop, still producing a high quality durable finish. I used to have a down draft booth and the possibilities were endless. But now I dont have time to clean the dust off the floor:unbelievable:

Have you had any luck with spraying the minwaxx product?

 

[johnnyfamous]

got a little more done, hit my first snag, Hopefully there wont be to many.

When measuring for the location of the passives, I forgot to allow for the fact that I was adding a "top plate" ( what do you call these things already?) to the woofer side and not the amp side, thereby throwing my center point out by 3/4 of an inch. So my passives are not centered:hissyfit: I guess I could add a "top plate" to the amp side??, this thing is getting heavy!

I suppose I will be the only one that knows as the passives will be covered in grill cloth, but it still irks me.

I also had a chance to glue the top pieces together. I still need to cut it down slightly. I did a quick mock up of the corner and top just to get a visual.

 

[johnnyfamous]

did a little painting this week. I had some paint laying around so i thought i would use it up. There is another member on here with some great "piano black" finish work that inspired me. I have not had a chance to polish yet, but i will before i start the ebony edge work. I paint motorcycles as another hobby. (wife often complains that i have too many:rant

 

[johnnyfamous]

thanks. there is a day of cure on it.

 

[johnnyfamous]

hey Mike, i have seen you recommend foam tape to seal around the sub and passives on other posts. I always assumed the sub was self sealing as it seems to have a rubber surround of some kind. Is this not the case? and if i should use foam tape, the smallest stuff i can find is quarter inch thick by various widths. Seems too thick to me? I have seen speaker gaskets before and none seem to be thicker than a sixteenth.

Thanks.

 

[johnnyfamous]

installed the t nuts and started polishing . I sand with 2000 grit wet with a touch of dish soap. I have found the key to a good polish job is pre soaking your paper and then sanding in one direction. I then use three different polishes, Coarse, swirl remover, glaze.

Sorry my camera battery died so i used my cell phone.:rubeyes:

 

[johnnyfamous]

indeed! i dont often buy cheap tools, but if you dont use it to often, why not. mind you i think the motor is already starting to go:gulp:

 

[johnnyfamous]

Progress continues,, but slowly:foottap: I wana listen to this thing already.

I finished polishing, The pictures dont really do it justice, I could not get my camera to focus properly. I started to lay out the top, so far so good.:R

 

[johnnyfamous]

Nice x 2

Hey I see you have a munchkin visiting!

Mark

Thanks Mark! my boy was down looking over things. number two on the way tomarow, have a c section booked. We will see if i have much time to completeonder:

After consideration I have decided to cold press my top. Without having any seems in past work there was never an issue with seem separation but now things have changed. One of the reasons I use ebony is because it is a very stable wood with little or no expansion. Thus there is none/little chance of delaminating using contacts. Birdseye Maple with several seems would be a totally different story. I think this would be one of the most demanding woods and probably would fail eventually using contact cements. I would hate to have any separation or delaminating after how long it takes to cut those tight seems. Without the time or interest in making a vacume press at present, I will cold press the top. ( i am about 240lbs so i figure i will stand on it until it dries:sarcastic

I checked out the ironing glue you recommended but i dont know how it will hold up to a heavly seemed piece. my intent is to use titebond "ultimate" wood glue. It is easy for me to purchase and if i am not mistaken will provide a stronger grip than an actual coldpress glue?? the cold press glues have been hard for me to locate. I found a gallon jug at Richelieu but did not want to spend $40,00. I dont think there is a big difference aside from being able to get them in darker shades or perhaps a little longer set up time. Or am I missing something? I will be using a 2 day masking tape for seems, I can not find veneer tape locally and dont want to order anything in the mail. the masking tape was free:clap:

 

[johnnyfamous]

Made some progress on the top veneer. I still need to cut it down and do the edges and inlay. There was a little rippeling when i took all the weight off, but it seems to be workable. The veener is thick enough, so i think i will be able to sand it smooth, Hopefully not a sign of issues down the line. I suspect this was caused by to much glue,? I still think I got a better bond with the contact, I had a few pieces of scrap left over from my last contact build and tried to chisel off the veneer, it took the mdf with it. the finished product looked better anyway.

I used your sand bag idea Mark, Thanks! I feel a little bad for using home depot like that, but what am i gona do with 330lbs of sand:devil:

 

[johnnyfamous]

thanks mark, The little one is well, was a long three days. we are home now and i am off for three weeks, Hope to get some work done on the box, thats if i get any sleep:crying:

I took another close look, the veneer looks good, the ripples are small and I dont think it would be worth opening them up and gluing. I think most of them are glued, just a little ripply. There are a few on the ebony, that are not fully attached though, but they are small, i am worried about them getting worse if i open it up? they only way you can tell is if you run your hand across the grain. they are about a quarter inch wide and are 5inches long running with the grain. they are sitting up about 1/32" or less.

I have been toying around with the idea of using a eighth inch glass top to furthur protect the finish from cups and two small kids, dont know if i should or not? this may help with the ripply finish aswell but wont look as nice:yikes:


I am now leaning towards finishing the sides off with contact, they are straigt ebony with no seems and the workability on my end is much easier. I use a high solids solvent contact and have not had any issues at all.

 

[johnnyfamous]

The contact debate continues. You make many valuable common sense points Mark, But I think given the type of wood i am using and the small amount of veneer, contact will last for many more years than 10. perhaps on a large panel with many seams, I would suspect a commercial enviroment would be more demanding on veneers than residential and perhaps you might see the fail rates that you state in a resturant but probably not in my constant temprature, low humidity house. I have used allot of the waterborne contact in commercial/instatutional settings and its strength compaired to solvent is poor at best. That being said, your not wrong.:surrender:

I dont understand though how a NON convertable coating (yellow glue) will have a stronger bond strength after it has dried and then heat is applied to reactivate (which in theory is not possible with non convertable coatings) than a solvent based contact? I would think that the bond strength would be similar to water born contacts. ???? It seems very easy to work with mind you.

I appreciate your experience here, thanks. I want this to last many many years, so I am not apposed to trying a better method, I dont have any veneer to waste on this though so there is no room for mistakes. Why do you need to spray the veneer with water when using the urethane glue? and do you spray it on the glue side or the finish side?

 

[johnnyfamous]

Hi John



Urethane adhesives chemical reaction requires water as a catalyst. It is not really a true catalyst as in the sense of car paint or such. But without free water moisture the stuff takes forever to set. One side of a lamination is all that is required to be moistened.

With what you said about having only so much veneer. You definitely have the skills to do a good job with the contact cement. And I agree completely that the water borne stuff is much better than the solvent borne.



I saw the coolest idea for a cheap vacuum pump last night. A guy used a pool air pump and hooked it up on the vacuum side of the pump. He measured 120 grams / cm^2 vacuum pressure. I get 1.7 lbs/ inch^2 or 1.7 * 144 = 245 lbs/ ft^2 A bit better than the weight idea. And about all you could generate with the clamp system I have used before.

Just for kicks and giggles I should take some pics of the next vacuum bag job. I have an actual pump I bought from princess auto about 20 years ago. But it can be done on your air compressor if you have one. Once you set up for that you will never go back to any other method. Bags can be made from 10mil polyethylene and tuck tape or even duct tape. And a double roll over a skinny board with some spring clamps will self seal the open end of the bag.


Sorry to post common sense thought John. You are not just a finisher I think. You probably have quite a bit of cabinet experience as well.

Mark

Hey Mark, So i tried a test of the polyurethane, the results were much better than the yellow glue, In fact was very impressed! I will give it a try on the top sides, i suspect i will have favorable results:sn:

Think we had our wires crossed, I think the adhesion of the solvent products are much stronger than the water born contacts not vise versa as you state,, but i suppose its irrelevant anyways..

I would appreciate it if you could post some pictures of your vacume press system. My hesitation has been cost, having no veneer to make mistakes, and not wanting to wreck my compressor....Probably a little lazy to try something new as well:unbelievable:

I took a good look around princess auto yesterday. And they have a great fitting supply. I have a good understanding of what is needed but have a question, do you let the pump run continuos for two hours or would it not be wise to use a automatic pressure shut of to cycle the pump on and off as required? I did not see one there. I would hate to put that load on my compressor for an extended time.:help: