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Now, I need to know something. Do you have any experience with Gorilla Glue? I'm wanting to adhere the little magnets to the border areas of the Sintra itself. I'm wondering how glue ages, and if there is a better way of accomplishing what I'm trying to do. (Stick the Sintra to the wall magnetically). I was looking for small metal "u channel" pieces that I could slip over the top of the screen so I wouldn't need to use glue. But should I fear glue? Is glue my friend?
Gorilla Glue has it's uses, but I don't think gluing metal to plastic is one of them, with either the polyurethane or cyanoacrylate versions. I would take some coarse grit sandpaper and rough up the surface of the Sintra where I wanted to glue the magnet and then apply a good grade of epoxy such as 'JB Weld' (I love that stuff).

The bottom board or aluminum channel is what is going to be supporting the weight of the Sintra panel. The magnets at the top are only to pull the top of the panel into the wall correct?

Also, I love the look of black velvet. But, when we tried to cut our triple black velvet from Sy's, we found it difficult to cut straight. lol Is there a really nice black velvet -looking tape out there that you guys really like? I'm wanting to create a 2 inch black border around the screen (this will also hide the magnets beneath it).
Give this thread a read. ;)

Thanks guys. I love this site (did I say that 10 times already?)

-Jon
Yeah, we just hate hearing this over and over again... NOT! :bigsmile:
 

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Discussion Starter #22
JB Weld, awesome! I will definitely try that! I brought some Gorilla Glue home to experiment with (tee hee). Nah, I just glued some Lowe's magnets to a sample piece of some generic PVC board I got at a sign shop. Gonna let it cure for 1 full day then see how hard I have to pull for it to come off.

I will definitely check out the JB Weld!

Oh! I forgot about that thread about the border! I actually read it before, but I've read so many threads I've forgotten some of them. lol


Here is my up-to-date design:

These little bitty metal L-shaped brackets will be supporting the screen from the bottom, and also they will be upside down along the top edge of the screen. Their purpose is to prevent the screen from moving downwards (obviously), but at the top, they were an easy solution to the problem of "where do I get some metal that is cheap, and is already ready to screw into the wall?" Well, I was holding the solution in my hand already (or so I currently think)! I laughed to myself as I went and grabbed a couple packages of them. I looked at other metal sheet-like things and nothing looked as satisfying or as easy as what I was already holding. Other things were either too heavy, bulky, expensive, or needed too many screws to hold it correctly.

The magnets will be appropriately spaced out along the border of the screen to match up with the little metal L brackets. They will snap to the brackets magnetically. What I'm not sure of yet is how strong the magnets will be in comparison to the heft of the Sintra, and whether or not Neodymium will be overkill or not. From what I'm reading about Neodymium, you don't want to get between them. lol Maybe there are different strengths I'm sure. Have you ever worked with magnets?

I have to admit I'm having a blast with this project. I think each person's project kinda fits their personality in some way. lol No, I'm not 2-faced! But I do have a magnetic per... oh okay I'll stop. :R
 

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After JB Weld has cured it can actually be drilled and tapped like metal! It is currently holding my address sign to my plastic mailbox.

I have used magnets, but not for holding up a screen or screen border. I have purchased some incredibly strong magnets from Lee Valley Tools. I learned about this place while I was learning how to build harps.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Well, that sounds like the stuff to get then! JB Weld it is. I like it.


After reading about magnet strength.. man.. I think I underestimated the strength of these things.

I think it may only take 2 of the neodymium magnets to do what I'm wanting. I'll put 2 at the top. I don't think I want more than 2 because it may be too much of a booger to pull off the wall without turning into a full-blown wrestling match! Don't wanna scuff the screen surfaces.

Harp making huh? Sounds like you have all sorts of interesting hobbies! I tried to learn guitar once. It just wasn't meant to be...
 

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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
Update:


Near-invisible mirror clips: These will be supporting the screen at the bottom, and also holding it in (not too tightly though).
(I've decided that the little metal brackets are too dangerous. They're too sharp, stick out too far, and it's too easy to pull the screen down
just by pulling straight out. Not good for the childrens.)

Strong magnets: These "mounting" magnets will be attached to the wall. Probably use 2 of them. Neodymium.

Very short bolts of some sort (w/ washers): These will be attracting the Sintra to the magnets at the top.


Trying to whittle it down to only needing Sintra and a toothpick. Getting there, getting there.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Updated Criteria:


-Screen must look good: Must not be able to see what is holding the screen on the wall.

-Screen must look good: Border cannot be "poofed out" because of the underlying mechanics (at least not much).

-I would prefer nothing but magnetism holding the screen to the wall. I don't know how realistic this will be yet.


Any ideas or suggestions welcome! I'm scratching my head over here. lol

If you know anything, thanks!
 

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-I would prefer nothing but magnetism holding the screen to the wall. I don't know how realistic this will be yet.
While that would probably be possible, it would be very expensive unless you found a dirt-cheap source for good magnets. Unfortunately, when it comes to magnets it has been my experience that you get what you pay for. :whistling:
 

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Discussion Starter #28 (Edited)
Thanks Harp,


Well, after further magnet research, I'm about pooped out on the idea of a fully magnetized screen. That would be either too expensive, like you said, or the solution is simply out of my league. :blink:

Current Design:

Along the bottom: The screen is resting some of its weight on top of screws sticking out of the wall. No need
for mirror clips. The screw heads are even smaller and less noticeable (I think), and with a little "creative camo", they could practically vanish. :)


Along the top: 3 countersunk ring magnets screwed to the wall. The screen is held to these magnets by 3 matching disc magnets. To remove the screen from the wall, simply remove the 3 discs. (These discs will be evenly spaced and camouflaged to blend in nicely with the screen border.)


Border: Aiming at the cheapest and easiest solution for a nice black velvet border.



Edit: About the border, I'm curious about flocking now. It doesn't look too difficult actually. I mean, we are already painting, why not paint some more? Do you think it would be just as black as velvet? I know nothing about it yet. New research begins! :nerd:


Edit #2: Another idea would be to purchase the 4.5 inch black velvet border tape, and fold it over the edges. This would essentially give me a border on both sides of about 2 inches. Tempting. Not sure I could do this straight though.
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
Making my own Black Velvet Border Tape!

I have a little Sy's triple black velvet left over from my last screen so I decided to do a little experiment. I remember how much of a pain that velvet was to try to cut straight.

I bought some carpet tape from Ace Hardware (I was looking for double-sided tape that was about 3" wide). Well, I didn't realize this wasn't double-sided. Oh well. I laid the velvet out face down, and applied a strip of this tape onto the back of the velvet. I then cut the outer edges off the tape and viola! Homemade black velvet border tape with Sy's Triple Black. I don't know why this didn't occur to me before.

I don't know if this will actually work or not, but I think I'm gonna give it a shot. Gotta find some 3" or even 2" thick double-sided tape (with some powerful stick). Gonna make me some black velvet tape for less than $50 for 35 feet (or whatever it's sold for). Yeehaw! I'm okay! :dumbcrazy:

Any thoughts on that? Bad idea? Good? Meh? I'm kinda excited. :sn: I thought I was gonna have to get felt tape. I'm sure not going to wrap boards again. Ugh..

Edit: I noticed that the spray adhesive I bought is repositionable. Interesting. I wonder if it would make more sense to use single-sided tape, and then attach the border to the Sintra using spray adhesive. That way, you can move it around a bit before it sticks completely. Just thinking...
 

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The good ideas just keep flowing! :clap:

Be sure any "repositionable" adhesive will at some point become non-repositionable or it may reposition itself when you don't want it to. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Hey Harp!

Thanks for the encouragement! Man on a mission time. lol I'm really diggin' this triple black velvet. I went to the fabric store today and ended up in an antique store. To make a long and boring story short, the man that owned the place let me try cutting the tape with a hobby knife of some sort that looked like a scalpel. I messed up part of it, but most of the section I cut with an imperfect blade on an imperfect table in un-ideal condtions... turned out pretty professional looking! I was surprised. You can actually make black velvet border tape for pretty cheap!

Announcement: Yes people! It appears that you too can make cheap black velvet border tape pretty easily! (But give me some time to verify this. lol) Work in progress here. I'm excited about this one little thing right now. I never knew black velvet strips could be so exciting! :nerd: I'm a dork I know. Oh well. *sigh*

Harp, if it were you, would you use spray adhesive or double-sided tape? Which do you think you would be fighting with the most? Or which would be easiest, best-looking? That's the part I'm wondering about. I'm thinking that single-sided would be easier to acquire in the desired widths. Hmm.... I'll check on that re-positionable-ness! Good call good call.
 

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Discussion Starter #32 (Edited)
Update:

Okay, about making your own black velvet border... I just don't know. The cleanest cut I could get was by using scissors. But, the scissor cut just wasn't straight enough for my liking, even though it was straighter than I anticipated it would be! Velvet doesn't like to play nice. I tried a snap-off blade knife, scissors, and a hobby knife. IME, the scissors worked the best. It is "doable". I don't know if I can recommend it to a friend or not. Leaning towards no.


Working with tape has given me a new idea. Black flocking powder onto double-sided tape. Eh? eh? (Eh, maybe just flocking without the tape.)

Anyway... Round 2: :boxer:
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Update: For now, I'm going to skip adding a black border to my screen. I'm not sure it helps in my particular situation. 2 areas I believe it does help: Overscan and perceived brightness. 1 area I believe it hurts: Perceived image size (thicker the border, smaller the screen seems). 1 area I'm not convinced of yet: contrast. I'm going to experiment by simply leaving it off for now. But, if I do add one later, I believe I'll look into flocking first. If that is a no-go, then I may break down and buy that black border tape. I hope I don't break down though. lol
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Update: I've decided to just paint the wall. Yep. It's not that I don't like the Sintra idea, but I'm going to save money on Sintra and shipping and put that money toward a colorimeter. I really think if you're going to get into projection, it's worth it to learn a little about calibration. It's fun! And you can calibrate all your TVs too! And your friends' TVs! And your... you get the idea.

I've also had the opportunity to test my HT with and without a border, back and forth, back and forth. And, I really went back and forth on whether I actually liked it better with or without a black border. My screen is 110" with a 3.5" black velvet wrapped wood frame. I ripped the blackout cloth screen out of my border and just used my wall with the border around it.

I'm an odd duck, I know, but here are my thoughts on why I prefer to go borderless for MY setup:

1. I really enjoy the limitless freedom of creating a picture at whatever size I feel at the time.

2. I use the screen size changing to tweak my brightness a bit. Hey, whatever works! :)

3. I like the look of my "floating screen." It has this almost holographic look to it IMO. "Out-of-nowhere".

4. For some reason, the black border makes me think TV instead of theater. Kinda looks dated for some reason. I don't know why. :dontknow:

5. To me, the screen looks bigger without a border. I have no idea why this is, but I feel its definitely true (for me). My theory is that the border gives my eyes something physical to "lock" onto and gives me an easy time perceiving the limits of the screen without looking directly at the border. I think that without the border, the screen stretches off into the "unknown" of my peripheral vision. I feel like I lose my perspective on size and get more immersed somehow. :dontknow: I'm theorizing. Keep in mind I'm one of those people that love an impractically big screen! Star Wars and Jurassic Park have to be BIG. :)


Anyway, I guess this ends the whole point of this thread, the "hot-swappable screen". I think that going with borderless paint seems like it's going to be the answer for me, for now. And a colorimeter.


Thanks for reading, and helping!


P.S. In case you want to know what paint I'm going with, I'm going to prime it with the Kilz first and use that as reference as per the great advice on this thread. I'll get my calibration equipment first and calibrate it to the white screen. If this isn't good enough, I'll drop to probably Elektra 8 or so. Or maybe Black Widow. Not sure how dark I want to go yet. Will be testing! Remember: It's a mess to guess. ;) Thanks!
 

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Ok, I wanted to PM you with an update to your thread, but I can't do PMs because of my post count. I'm also not allowed to post links.
:innocent:
So I'll just tell you.. go to google and type in quotes "My wa dw aluminum frame screen build".

I think you'll find this information most helpful. Also in my experience, I was able to fit a 5x10 sheet of DW in my compact import car quite easily with the front passenger seat folded down and placed in diagonally. Don't be scared.
I hope this info is helpful to you, cheers.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Hey Jesh! I looked at that 80/20 tubing. Very cool! I had seen that before, but couldn't remember what it was called. You fit a DW screen in your car!? Scary man. lol I like the idea of a lightweight frame. My biggest concern is how to deal with potential bowing in the middle of the screen. I COULD put some vertical support beams down the middle of the screen, but I'm concerned about what this might do to the acoustics. Any ideas? I'm all... eyes!
 
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