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Discussion Starter #1
Dear Members,

Does anyone know what ever happened to upcoming legal video servers?

I was about to buy the Kaleidescape system but then I backed off because they got into a lawsuit that I believe Kaleidescape finally won against ******** Greedy Hollywood...

Given the fact that today's attorneys and many institutions (Again, Greedy Hollywood) will sue you for anything related to legally copying DVD's (Including Kaleidescape system) I wonder if we are still in Limbo or if there is light at the end on the tunnel with maybe new legislation coming up...

Is Kaleidescape still legal to own and use?

One thing for sure is that very unfortunately Hollywood has been a deterrent for many advances in technology... :boxer:

Anybody out there has more information?

Best regards,

AZUARO
Flathead Lake, MT
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
It is pretty sharp and a very nice desirable system for any HT...

Very unfortunately Kaleidescape has been fighting Hollywood like crazy...Please Google "Kaleidescape lawsuit" and you will read what they have had to deal with...Kaleidescape was ahead of the game until August of 2009 when they received a major set back from a California Court....I wonder if these courts are in the payrol of the MPAA because they seem to agree 100% with anything the CSS or the MPAA say...

I wonder if we are ever going to be able to have our legal DVDs digitized in a video server for faster and easier access...

Regards,

AZUARO
Flathead Lake, MT
 

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You are probably right , someone is paying someone under the table .. half the Judge's probably don't have the slightest idea what the the CSS or MPAA are even complaining about .. Wow don't the California courts have better things to do..
 

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I would be hesitant to call any video server that simply allows you to watch videos that you have purchased in your own home illegal. At this point, as I understand it, the courts decision is not a blanket condemnation of all DVD ripping software, and last time I checked, computers were still legal.

Save the money, and the heartache, and roll your own server and use it with a media streamer such as the popcorn hour or WD Live.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The problem with making your own video server is that at some point in time you will have to use ripping software for breaking the DVD copy protection which is illegal. The current legislation DOES NOT ALLOW consumers to make a copy of a DVD unless the DVD is physically present in the machine at the time of playing back the movie; this is contradictory and non sense but it's the law....

The "Fair" DVD copy issue has been taboo and practically is not contemplated by law, just take a look at the most recent ruling (August 2009) from a California judge against Kaleidescape. I met and chatted with Michael Malcolm (Kaleidescape's owner) at a CES in Vegas in 2003 and I really admire him for his persistence, honesty and good faith in fighting for the rights of consumers.

I suppose that the only way of legally making a copy of a DVD will be to record the movie thru the S-Video or RCA outputs which will dramatically deteriorate quality and will not allow you to use menus and other extras; this will be the same as to what people do when recording material using a VHS or to what consumers do for transferring music to their iPods.

The CD industry is another story because a CD is not copy protected and if you own and have the CD you have no problem in copying it to your iPod or computer FOR YOUR PERSONAL USE.

I read somewhere that future generations of Blue Ray DVDs would have to include a "Fair Copy" section imbedded in the same DVD by 2012; this would allow the consumer to make a single copy of the material, but (A BIG BUT) it would not carry the HD quality and other features (movie chapters and other)... Nevertheless, this new requirement for the movie industry has been DELAYED time and again and I wonder if the MPAA and CSS collusion with some judges is never going to end.

It is very strange that the CSS is extremely powerful in the shades, they make tons of billions of dollars by charging fees for each and every DVD player produced WORLDWIDE...They charge big for the "Right" of being able to use the chip that will allow the player to reproduce copy protected material and the same applies for any product carrying an HDMI output capable of allowing copy protected material to pass or to be played thru this output...The CSS calls it "Licensing Fees" and they hound and collect these fees WORLDWIDE...Kind of legal worldwide racketeering.

The strange part is that NOBODY knows who (Person or institution) is behind the CSS, there is no physical address and no names of persons or institutions appear in the lawsuits other that the same CSS and the attorneys representing them....

Who is making all this billions of dollars and why is it that they don't want us to know how they got so powerful? Is the CSS actually paying taxes? I wish that the IRS could answer this.

I wonder is the CSS are the same thieves as our Federal Reserve who is owned and governed by PRIVATE international bankers (Not owned or regulated by our federal government as 99% of the people think) making trillions while manipulating our US economy for their own benefit, BUT nobody knows who they are and every politician wants to be very close to them for getting a piece of the action...Is this why the courts are ruling in favor of the CSS and against the American people?
 

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I would like to see the law where it is clearly stated that I cannot make a copy for my own personal use, not to be distributed. Now maybe one exists, but I haven't seen it. Instead, I hear a lot of conjecture from both sides.

Now, the production and distribution of the software the I may have to use to make that copy could be illegal, but is my use of it illegal? I don't think that's been made clear.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
You can make a copy for your own personal use as long as you don't break the law in the process of doing so...

The use of illegal software breaks the law by definition...There is no way that you could use something illegal or banned for producing something legal.

No back up DVD copies of any kind are currently allowed or contemplated other than the FAIR COPY requirement for Blue Ray DVDS mentioned in my previous post. The only current possibility of making a DVD's movie copy is thru the S-Video because you will not be using illegal software and a degraded copy does not represent a TRUE COPY.

A copy by definition should be identical in material and contents to the original. Having said this, the copy issue was argued in court while some attorneys tried to say that a copy to a computer's Hard Drive was not a TRUE COPY because it was electronic, and an electronic file in your computer is not the same as a plastic DVD so it could not be considered a copy...

Well, the courts ruled against this argument because the end material (movie) is what is identical and this was considered the matter of the litigation and not the plastic DVD itself which was considered as media...

So no DVD copies are allowed or legal to any kind of media including Hard Drives (as we speak)...And remember that ignorance or misinterpretation of the laws are not an excuse for breaking the law...
 

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Here's the direct quote from the judge in the RealDVD case, from wired:

However, she stopped short of sanctioning personal use copies, and gave a conflicting message on whether it was legal. “So while it may well be fair use for an individual consumer to store a backup copy of a personally owned DVD on that individual’s computer, a federal law has nonetheless made it illegal to manufacture or traffic in a device or tool that permits a consumer to make such copies,” Patel said. She added, “fair use can never be an affirmative defense to the act of gaining unauthorized access” — a simple way of saying it was illegal to hack into the encryption to make a copy.

So it's probably legal to have a copy, just not to make one. How absurd. If an individual take one of my DVDs, makes a copy, and then give me back the original and copy, have I done anything illegal? I'm in possession of nothing illegal? Is the trafficking of my legal possessions illegal?

If not, someone should setup a network in a country where creating fair use backups is legal to distribute copies of DVDs which you own...oh wait, they already have.

I put the DMCA right up there with outdated laws against chewing gum and drinking on Sundays. Absurd.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
There are some people out there with illegal copies and servers but it is like having a time bomb in your hands, you will never know when it will go off.

I personally wouldn't want to deal in court with these CSS and DMCA hounds...They have so much power and money and are willing to use it in order to send a message and make a point...

I have been monitoring the legal use of Video Servers for over 6 years and it has gone from bad to worse...Kaleidescape has been the only one company to legally semi-win the battle but it seems that their days are counted...Hopefully Malcolm's attorneys can sharpen up their skills and can win this non-sense controversy.
 

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Well, I think the time-bomb analogy is a little FUD. You're telling me that the gov't is going to start kicking in the doors of everyone using a Kaleidescape and charge them with possession of copyright infringing software? Or, without trading in hyperbole, that anyone with a server full of their backed up movies for their own personal use is somehow at risk of legal action?

I don't think I'm going to start hording water and ammo, or deleting my backups quite yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Marshall,

You say:
"You are telling me...."Well, I am not telling you anything first because I don't have the slightest idea who you are and second because I don't know how much do you know about these issues...Don't take it so personal...

I am presenting current facts and trends in the industry, read well: FACTS and TRENDS, it is not my personal opinion but what is happening around you and all of us who are enthusiasts of Video and Audio....

This thread is intended to inform the HT community of what is happening in an effort to create a consensus among society so our rights are not infringed by greedy studios and corrupted lawmakers using the excuse of anti-piracy as their flag...

If you ever have studied history and know about the origins of the law in the US, you will know that this country was founded copying books, laws, technologies and even religions from other countries in Europe including England, Spain and France...Times change and nowadays this country wants to shut down the back door to any kind of copying for the benefit of a selected group of ambitious and greedy people.

Going back to your post: If someone wants to make illegal copies or wants to have a homemade video server full of illegal DVD copies, it is their own business and this thread is not about who wants to do it or who should't do it...Keep in mind that a home made videoserver full of DVD's sure is enough cause for prosecution and each and every illegal DVD copy is a separate count and prosecutors will accumulate them.

I have tried to buy a 100% LEGAL and licensed Video Server not because I don't have the capability of configuring one myself but because with current legislation there is no way of doing it without breaking the law, and it is not getting any better!

I like many other law abiding citizens in this country are not willing to break the law by principle no matter how dumb or how stupid the law may be...By the same token, I and many other people will like to participate in getting organized for making conscience among the community and for changing the laws that are threating to infringe our rights and freedom.

Kaleidescape is so far the only "Legal" means of copying a DVD to a video server...This is because they are licensed but the problem arose when they were sued for BREACH OF CONTRACT by the very same people who licensed them; the studios and some colluded judges are by all means trying to outlaw this company. No copying software company nor any other video server company has ever been licensed, they all have entered the market unlawfully and this situation makes previous use of their software or servers illegal..

To answer your question: NO, the government is not going to knock on the doors of people who have acquired Kaleidescape systems because laws are not applied in a retroactive manner...The system was legal and it still is, but If Kaleidescape is outlawed then people will break the law if they add new DVDS after the date when it was outlawed (It was a legal and licensed up to that date).

Are the studios and the government going to pursue private citizens who have homemade video servers? Well, I don't know, but there is enough evidence about numerous attacks on particulars for downloading illegal copies of CD's and I wouldn't be surprised if the studios started to enforce the law and to persecute particulars in order to make a point and send a very strong message:
WE WILL NOT ALLOW ANYONE TO MAKE COPIES WITHOUT US REALLY PROFITING FROM IT

This is a matter of greed and we all need to get organized and change the laws, we need to get rid of corrupted lawmakers and colluded and corrupted judges and politicians, all without having to stock water guns and ammo.
 

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I agree totally, and I think it's going to take legions of home theater and technology lovers to stand up and say "we're not going to take it anymore". But most folks won't stick up for the technology because they have no idea what they're missing, or they don't want to fight. Most folks just hear "illegal" and don't think twice.

People should certainly be informed of the consequences, but they shouldn't be afraid. If the gov't prosecutes you for your files stored on your computer that you aren't sharing with anyone else, there is a bigger problem than copyright infringement (namely, how did they kick in your door and start going through your computer).

In my opinion, when it comes to making copies for your own use, there is nothing to fear. Once again, my opinion, but one shared by many.

I am well aware of the consequences and will personally make fair use copies of anything I see fit. making fair use commonplace is the only way this war is going to be won...informing judges and politicians isn't working, this is a war of public opinion.
 

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...nowadays this country wants to shut down the back door to any kind of copying for the benefit of a selected group of ambitious and greedy people.
What do you mean by "this country wants to?" I don't think that the country wants to at all. I think "this country" wants reasonable protection of intelectual property, which is reasonable. "this country" was not founded on any idea that anyone should be able to copy anyone else's work. That is a matter of technology and availablility of media which has changed dramatically over the years. I was not among the founding principles of our nation.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Hello,

Somebody said:
"This country was not founded on any idea that anyone should be able to copy anyone else's work...."

Whether we like it or not, our country's core laws were 100% copied from the English and the French, our text books were all 100% copied from English books and plagiarism and/or intellectual property damage has never been on the negotiations table...
 

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You seem to be confusing different issues to justify something that you claim you don't even support.

It was not one of the founding principles that we be able to freely copy another's work. It was common practice at the time because the technology of media and its distribution were so difficult. Over two centuries that has changed and the value of intelectual property has become more significant relative to the cost of printing and distribution. This country would not have a problem with another "stealing" its founding documents and using them to write their own. This is very different than someone pirating a DVD.

You said yourself that there should be protections as long as they do not become unreasonable. The real question is where that line is drawn and suggesting that

"We as a country have done it but now we look the other way and don't want anybody else to even think about doing it for a fair or any other cause (Shutting the door) and for making sure this happens we lead and promote International laws for protecting intellectual material."

is simply an incorrect argument applied out of context.

I think that we nearly all agree that copyright protection is a reasonable thing and also that some degree of fair use should exist. Please do not make an argument where there is none. Your argument is with a few ridiculous lawsuits and judicial rulings and a few ambigous laws, not with anyone here, the way our country was founded, nor with "this country" in general.

Yes, you have presented the facts, but you used them to justify a rant with extreme statements that don't connect very well and to preach to the choir with respect to your real point. It is not necessary to attribute intent to the whole country incorrectly nor to suggest that the country was formed based upon the legitimacy of piracy to argue that fair use is a sensible concept.
 

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I'm a little lost at what the point is or where everyone stands. I think we should all wrap up our arguments into three sentences or less. Here's mine (though somehow still long winded).


Copyright protection is as necessary as fair-use, but the MPAA will tell you (and the politicians and judges whose campaigns they contribute to) that copyright is the only one at risk, when in reality, fair-use is the most under-fire. If the vast public wants copyright reform and fair-use provisions, it will happen, but the fear-mongering and extortionist tactics of the MPAA, RIAA, and sycophant courts and halls has made most people afraid to even try the various technologies that stand to advance the ways in which we consume media (to the eventual benefit of those who produce and sell media). Feel free to copy your own movies for your own use all day long (but do not distribute), and do not fear that the FBI will NOT kick in your door, because if they do, it won't be for your movies.
 

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Illegal or Legal... Lets see I downloaded music on to cassette of the radio in the 80's I copied movies with my vcr.. I burn movies on DVD.. Why not just Quit making all recording devices LOL.. The music industry and movie industry are a bunch of crybaby's
 
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