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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hello everybody, I am looking for driver and details on enclosure design. i have been in contact with old tc sounds, now audiopulse, for advice. They have a speaker that won't come out until January called the LMSR. According to TC sounds this is going to be a very good driver. I have been looking at SVS and HSU subs and decided I would like to make my own. Because this driver from audio pulse is long delivery I an looking for alternate high end drivers and plate amp box design etc. The subs I was interested in from svs and hsu are pb 13 ultra and uls 15 (for size) Would anybody be able to recommend a driver that would compete with that of the ultra and help me with a box design and combination? All this being said, am I better of just to buy a ULS 15 or VTF3MK3 or PB 13 Ultra? It's all for hometheatre use 2800 sq ft room. As I am a cabinet maker I am most interested in making my own but lack the knowledge on what products to choose and would appreciate any advice , Thanks
 

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You can easily make a sub that will match the ultra in output and extension and for less $$$. Check out the resources in the DIY subwoofer forum. There is a database of completed designs. I would go with a 15" or 18" driver. Check out the Exodus drivers from DIYCable.com. Designs are documented on that page for each of their drivers.
 

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Elite Shackster
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I posted this elsewhere some time ago which may prove useful to you:

Moonfly said:
I figured I would start a thread that helps people who want to build their own sub. There are a few common questions that crop up and hopefully this can be a place people can come for help getting these answers.


I'll start off though by adding the following link:

Audio Innovation - by Dan Marx www.danmarx.org

IMO, this is the very first step down the DIY route and the perfect start point.

Here's hoping others jump in with useful info and links :smashin:



Cheers
and this

Moonfly said:
Ok so after you have decided on which sub woofer design is for you, its time to find something to put in it. This means a driver and amplifier. I'll start off with the driver, as this is the harder of the 2 parts to figure out.

The search for a driver starts with looking into the T/S (Thiele Small) parameters of the driver. These are a group of electrical and mechanical properties of the driver, and they basically tell you how the driver will act, what size enclosure it will work best in, and generally if the driver is the right one for your needs. A good explanation of these parameters can be found here:

Thiele/Small - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and

LoudspeakerBuilder.ca - (Thiele-Small Parameters)

I found the main parameters of interest for me (starting out for the first time) were the Fs, Vas, Xmax, Z and Pe.

  • FS - this is the frequency the speaker naturally wants to work at. If you want lower bass, look for lower fs, if you want more audible bass and arent as worried about depth aim higher.
  • Vas - this is a guide to the size of cabinet the speaker best works in, and this is important, especially if box size is important to you. Generally more Vas means you'll need a larger cabinet, although the Vas figure itself is actually a measure of the drivers stiffness.
  • Xmax - this is the limit if movement (usually in mm) the driver is capable of before serious distortion occurs. Sometime this is from rest to maximum excusion, but generally its max in to max out. Its important to monitor this when designing your sub in simulation software.
  • Z - this is the ohm rating of the driver, and this info is needed when choosing what amp to use to drive your speaker.
  • Pe - this is the watt rating the driver can handle. This too is important when your choosing an amp to drive the speaker.

There are more parameters, and you need these when using software to model your drivers. You can usually find all this information from the website of driver suppliers, or ask them if you cant find the info.

Once you think you have a good driver that suits your needs, you can model it in software that is free and readily available to see how it will work. From this you will be able to get an idea of how the driver works, in your chosen enclosure, and be able to see if your likely to achieve your goals.

There are some free software programs that are available to run your simulations, the one Ive been using is this:

Win ISD by linear team

Using this program (or a similar one), and the drivers TS parameters you can get a good idea of how the sub will perform. You can see how loud and how low your sub is likely to go, as well get a good idea of how large your box needs to be to achieve your goals.

Hopefully this will help choose the right driver for what ever enclosure type you decided on.
Hopefully that will help answer some of your starter questions. If it throws up any new questions we'll try our best to elaborate. If it is of interest, I have just taken delivery of two of these babies, and very nice they are too. Ive also just demo'd a pair of subs using them and mightily impressive is a bit understated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks Moonfly, That is a lot of info to decipher. I will do some research and try to understand. What was your pb13u like? Do you think your DIY project will be as good? Also are those speakers good enough( with the correct box design) could sound as good as the PB 13?

Thanks for all the info!
 

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Elite Shackster
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Well the PB13 was an excellent sub, with power and depth unmatched by any other sub Ive owned so far. I do think these drivers are good enough to compete though. I had a demo of a pair of MK some time ago and the sound quality was amazing, even compared to the Ultra, but they couldnt match its depth.

That put me on a journey to try and build something to combine both of those into a single sub. I ordered my drivers with a few other guys so we could take advantage of a multibuy discount, and I went to pick them up from the guy who did the ordering this weekend. He has built his 2 subs with these drivers now and I have to say that they dont disappoint. They have power and depth, and a touch more details than the Ultra had as well. The sound quality is as good as the Ultra, but not quite the MK I'm chasing. This could be as much to do with personal taste though (QTC targets), so I will leave that one out till I have built my own.

I will be starting a thread soon, so it may be worth you keeping an eye out for that if you wish.
 

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The subs I was interested in from svs and hsu are pb 13 ultra and uls 15 (for size) Would anybody be able to recommend a driver that would compete with that of the ultra and help me with a box design and combination?

Are you referring to the driver size or the box size?

 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi Mike, I was referring to the box size as the smaller would allow more placement options in my room. Also the uls seemed to be well regarded.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks Moonfly, I look forward to the new post. Would I be able to build a sub with one of those drivers that would sound as good as the pb13?
 

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Elite Shackster
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Based on what I heard of the two single driver builds, I would say sound quality is going to be a touch better than the Ultra. Performance isnt really a given, after all its possible to mess up a DIY sub, and you can always tinker with the design to change aspects to suit you.

If you want to go sealed then matching the Ultra will take a careful bit of building to get it right, but we can help you there, and I will be able to help with these drivers in particular. If you want to build a ported sub, and get the calcs right, I have no doubt that even using just 1 driver, you could exceed the Ultra performance.

The thing that impressed me so much about the AV-15's was the detail they pull out, which IMO is simply stunning. Again, getting the build just right is key, but there is no reason that wont happen.
 

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Based on what I heard of the two single driver builds, I would say sound quality is going to be a touch better than the Ultra. Performance isnt really a given, after all its possible to mess up a DIY sub, and you can always tinker with the design to change aspects to suit you.

If you want to go sealed then matching the Ultra will take a careful bit of building to get it right, but we can help you there, and I will be able to help with these drivers in particular. If you want to build a ported sub, and get the calcs right, I have no doubt that even using just 1 driver, you could exceed the Ultra performance.

The thing that impressed me so much about the AV-15's was the detail they pull out, which IMO is simply stunning. Again, getting the build just right is key, but there is no reason that wont happen.
For the price of an Ultra I could build a 21" Maelstrom sub. There is no comparison in performance between the 2. If you use the TC Sounds driver you will be using the best sounding sub on the market according to many sub builders. There are other that will probably disagree, but if you buy a JL Audio, TC Sounds, Infinity, or Exodus Audio driver you will be do very well. You can even hire out the build to a cabinet maker.
 

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Elite Shackster
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For the price of an Ultra I could build a 21" Maelstrom sub. There is no comparison in performance between the 2. If you use the TC Sounds driver you will be using the best sounding sub on the market according to many sub builders. There are other that will probably disagree, but if you buy a JL Audio, TC Sounds, Infinity, or Exodus Audio driver you will be do very well. You can even hire out the build to a cabinet maker.
I would reiterate that its as long as you build it right. I'm confident the AV-15 will an beat an Ultra as well. Costing wise, I'm in the UK and I'm building a sub using 2 drivers and can still do the build for half the cost of an Ultra, which says a lot really.
 

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I would reiterate that its as long as you build it right. I'm confident the AV-15 will an beat an Ultra as well. Costing wise, I'm in the UK and I'm building a sub using 2 drivers and can still do the build for half the cost of an Ultra, which says a lot really.
LOL the first build is always a disaster. Kind of like the first date. This is why I suggest you go small for the first build.

Still in the end it ends up sounding way better because you built it yourself and no other sub had that treatment. :T

A rasp, a flush trim router and a first aid kit are all friends I made in my first build. :R Suprisingly the hardest thing to do is cut the panels.
 

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Elite Shackster
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Not much chance of me going small. I already have the drivers and need a 150 litre cabinet :D

As for cutting panels, I intend to get that bit done by who ever I order them from. Cant beat machine cut square panels :T
 
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