When my sub grows up (not blows up)

22565 Views 238 Replies 20 Participants Last post by Lumen, Jul 22, 2015

Lumen

Discussion Starter · Mar 26, 2015

On another thread, Tonyvdb started me wondering about nether regions of subterrannean bass my system is not mining. :scratchchin: I've been combing over some of the subwoofer forums and recent threads about bass extension to see if there's a quick solution but wouldn't ya knooooo-oooohw, it's another can of worms. Budget purchase? DIY? Dual subs? Placement? etc. etc. etc. :gah:

My REL T-9 is no slouch for my smallish (~10x13) room, but its 6dB down point is only 28Hz. What I understand is that's not too impressive. I may have to wait until I have more :dollarsign: to throw at this, but I'd like to extend the frequency response of my system down to a more exciting level. Selling the REL is not out of the question, but I'm all thumbs for a DIY box.

I'm entertaining all suggestions for a replacement sub, including easy-to-build DIY if there is such a thing (I'm thinking it will be cheaper than buying a new one). Oh yeah, and there's really no room for TWO people in this HT room let alone two subs, so let's keep the snickering to a minimum, okay? :heehee: :nono:

TIA

1 - 20 of 239 Posts

willis7469

· #2 · Mar 26, 2015

Well Lou. The first one that comes to mind is the SVS SB2000. 699.99 to the door. Free shipping both ways. Iirc, 45 day no questions return policy. Plus, 5yr warranty. It's small and sealed, so it will be great with music, although that's not a prerequisite. It's rated to 19hz, but in room extension should be closer to 15 or 16. How low do yo want to spend? Lol You could diy , but if you're all thumbs, let them handle it.
http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/sealed-box/sb-2000
Plenty of others, but that was the first to hit my brain cell....
http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/cylinder
I have a bias toward these too.

jamesfrazier

· #3 · Mar 26, 2015

The reaction audio gamma 15. It's older version the pv-15x out performed the svs SB13u for a lot less of the cost..Plus the newer one has a much better speaker power amp. The price for performance on these is no joke.

But of course you get plain black plain cabinets.. Not the refined beautiful refined svs finish, And their warranty is better.

You can't go wrong with any of the ID direct companies people are going to recommend here.. SVS,HSU,Rythmik,RA etc.

nwf477

· #4 · Mar 26, 2015

I am partial to DIY. Depending on space available for the sub I would suggest look at DIYsoundgroup they have a 4cu.ft. flatpack for 120.00 you can get a Stereo Integrity HT18 for 174 depending on if you ever decide to go with 2 subs get a Behringer Inuke nu3000 or if you will never decide on 2 go with a nu1000 for 150. figure on a 100 or less for wire connectors and paint how you finish it your choice and done. Tools needed all I used was a tape measure, pencil, wood glue, cordless screwdriver and wood screws. With the exception of waiting on the glue to dry 2-3 hours. My sub will go down to 14hz ( cannot really hear it but things are vibrating in the room ).

theJman

· #5 · Mar 26, 2015

It's funny, but when you don't know what you're missing it's not a big deal. However, hear/feel really deep bass one time - just once - and things change forever. 28Hz will never suffice again.

Along with the subs already suggested, check out the PowerSound Audio XS15se and S1500. Both are relatively small yet can plumb the depths with ease.

tonyvdb

· #6 · Mar 26, 2015

The lowest priced sub that will reach 20Hz is the SVS PB1000 Outlet special its on sale at $450
If you want more then the price goes up. HSU has one for just over $500 but it only hits 25Hz.

nordraw

· #7 · Mar 26, 2015

I'll second that one

Lumen

Discussion Starter · #8 · Mar 27, 2015

Thanks, everyone, for your awesome responses! They'll take a little while to digest, especially if they keep pouring in. Some of you mentioned sub location and available space, so I imagine that will affect the best choice. If you think it will help, I'll post some pics, but don't expect much in terms of options. The room's cram-packed with HT equipment, record albums, bass traps, and... tah dah ...the LP chair (story for another day).

The only set up I'd be worried about is corner placement. Some say it's best because it excites all room modes equally. Others say it just gives bloated bass. My REL is designed for corner placement. Is it okay to put any of your recommended models in the corner? Can you please repeat the pros and cons for me?

willis7469

· #9 · Mar 27, 2015

Well, it is a lot to take in. And man, I hate being uprooted from contentment! I feel your pain. And I know you know I know, cause you saw my amp thread. Lol. Anyway, corner placement will most likely depend on the room more than the sub. I have 3, all in corners, and my response is pretty nice. Lots of experiments, and phase adjustments. No reason not to start in the corner. Or where the REL is (corner?) pics?

tonyvdb

· #10 · Mar 27, 2015

corner placement can be ideal or it can be poor. You simply wont know till you try it. One thing to note is that a sub that is built right and digs deep will have a much better in room response than a cheap one so in room gain is not always a good indicator as to how deep it will go. Always get the best sub you can afford as it really makes a big difference.

jb5200

· #11 · Mar 27, 2015

I agree, I have had good and bad results with corner placement, it really depends on the room. In my current room I started on the inside of the tower and then tried the outside (corner) and that was bad - way more boom but not as clean so I had to go back to the inside. My last house and room I had to have it in the corner - it was the only way it sounded right without being halfway up out into the room and the wife wouldn't go for that! I told her it was the island from the kitchen that she's always wanted - Didn't fly!

Lumen

Discussion Starter · #12 · Mar 27, 2015

5

willis7469 said:
corner placement will most likely depend on the room more than the sub. I have 3, all in corners, and my response is pretty nice. Lots of experiments, and phase adjustments. No reason not to start in the corner. Or where the REL is (corner?) pics?

tonyvdb said:
corner placement can be ideal or it can be poor. You simply wont know till you try it.

jb5200 said:
I agree, I have had good and bad results with corner placement, it really depends on the room.

Okay, moving closer to that warm-n-fuzzy. Thanks for that--not so worried now about cart before the horse! I'll plan on a lot of trial-and-error using REW to help with speaker/sub positions and room treatment. Here's where the sub is before (left) and after (right) trapping. It's hard to tell from the pics but the trap forced the sub back into the corner against the baseboard, which essentially traded extension for flatter response. BTW, speaking of experimenting... at one time I had the trap on top of the sub. REW measurements and listening tests were best that way, but it kept falling off because of the vibrations (LOL). Just couldn't bring myself to duct tape it to the REL's nice finish.

The other pics show the rest of the room. The area circled in yellow could be an alternate location for the sub (on either side of the room). The LP end of the room obviously has no room for one. So that's what I have to work with. The REL is roughly a 14.5inch cube, but there's plenty more space back in that corner if I move or get rid of that bass trap. I thought about suspending it from the ceiling!!! Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself. Just wanted to give you an idea of the layout.

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Lumen

Discussion Starter · #13 · Mar 27, 2015

theJman said:
It's funny, but when you don't know what you're missing it's not a big deal. However, hear/feel really deep bass one time - just once - and things change forever. 28Hz will never suffice again.

Just like microwave ovens and cell phones! Don't know how you ever survived without 'em.

willis7469 said:
And man, I hate being uprooted from contentment! I feel your pain. And I know you know I know, cause you saw my amp thread. Lol.

jb5200 said:
...the wife wouldn't go for that! I told her it was the island from the kitchen that she's always wanted - Didn't fly!

You guys are too funny. :bigsmile:

Lumen

Discussion Starter · #14 · Mar 27, 2015

willis7469 said:
How low do yo want to spend? Lol

Sorry I missed you 1st time around (and apologies to anyone else I missed). You're all officially in the "too funny" club.

Lumen

Discussion Starter · #15 · Mar 27, 2015

nwf477 said:
I am partial to DIY. Depending on space available for the sub I would suggest look at DIYsoundgroup they have a 4cu.ft. flatpack for 120.00 you can get a Stereo Integrity HT18 for 174 depending on if you ever decide to go with 2 subs get a Behringer Inuke nu3000 or if you will never decide on 2 go with a nu1000 for 150. figure on a 100 or less for wire connectors and paint how you finish it your choice and done. Tools needed all I used was a tape measure, pencil, wood glue, cordless screwdriver and wood screws. With the exception of waiting on the glue to dry 2-3 hours. My sub will go down to 14hz ( cannot really hear it but things are vibrating in the room ).

You raise my hopes... Mitre saws and precision work with fasteners like nails and screws can tax my abilities, but gluing I can handle! To quote Harrison Ford in Six Days and Seven Nights: "See, I'm not totally without skills!" I can mud drywall, lay tile, solder, and put all sorts of nasty marks on various materials using my Dremel accessories

But ya gotta start somewhere, and I'm willing to try the DIY if I can get the results cheaper than a stroe-bought solution. OTOH, if I destroy an enclosure it could cost more in the long run. But hey, thanks for the suggestion and I'll check out the DIY section to try and learn some more.

nwf477

· #16 · Mar 27, 2015

Without trying to persuade you one way or another, personally I have zero woodworking skills. I can do electrical and put furniture from Ikea together. With the tools I mentioned that was all I had to build them. It would have been nice to have bar clamps then there would have been no need for the screws. If you are interested in performance look at this page:
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=systems
then scroll down to the DIY SI HT18D2 and look at the numbers then you can compare those to all the other brands. For me it was a no brainier, I was very tempted to get a Reaction PS-15X @800.00 it maxes out at 118.1 db will go down to 16hz at 93db the HT 18D2 maxes out at 123.1db will go down to 12.5hz at 92.7db. It's your choice all I can say I like mine a lot I will be ordering the second 18 on Monday the box is done.

Insearchof

· #17 · Mar 27, 2015

tonyvdb said:
corner placement can be ideal or it can be poor. You simply wont know till you try it. One thing to note is that a sub that is built right and digs deep will have a much better in room response than a cheap one so in room gain is not always a good indicator as to how deep it will go. Always get the best sub you can afford as it really makes a big difference.

^^^Agree. I used to run a sub in a corner as it was the only available spot before I recently moved. In the new living room, corner placement certainly gives more output but it also sounded a bit slow and boomy. The LV12R is not slow or boomy.
Moving it directly to the right of my center speaker tightened it up and smoothed out the sound in multiple positions. I certainly lost a bit of output but I'm happier with the overall sound.
For movies, it anchors the sound much better. The presentation doesn't feel lopsided anymore.

Lumen

Discussion Starter · #18 · Mar 29, 2015

I'm a little overwhelmed with tax season right now, but still :reading:
Thanks to all for the thoughtful input and not just model numbers!!!

Lumen

Discussion Starter · #19 · May 21, 2015

This may have been better treated along the lines of "Let sleeping dogs lie," but I'll try to revive this thread anyway. If no nibbles, I'll try a new one

So now I've gone and done did it again. Started rearranging my surrounds and tweaking bass traps, taking new measurements and making time for listening sessions. It's decided... the old sub has to go. It just doesn't cut it for HT, and I don't use the system much for music-only listening (though that could change as I tear-down my 2ch rig).

I have the opportunity to buy a slightly used SVS SB13 Ultra for $1000 with trade of my REL T-9 (not such a great deal IMO since the SVS retails for $1.6k and can be had right now on scratch-n-dent special for $1.25k). If I go that route, I could sell the REL outright and pocket the difference. I also have an Emotiva UMC-1 and UPA-500 to unload. I'm guessing I should be able to get around $500 for the sub and $400 for the processor/amp combo. Sound about right?

I know you guys already told me that it's all about "How low do you want to spend?" I also know you already told me it's futile trying to integrate two different subs (if I could even fit them in my room). So what would you do if this were you? Just looking for some more justification for getting rid of a perfectly good sub! If I can sell the gear and come up with a few hundred savings, would you still recommend the same subs? The Reaction Audio Gamma-15 comes to mind.

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Peter Loeser

· #20 · May 21, 2015

BlueRockinLou said:
So what would you do if this were you? Just looking for some more justification for getting rid of a perfectly good sub! If I can sell the gear and come up with a few hundred savings, would you still recommend the same subs?

If it were me I'd unload what you've got and use the cash on a new sub. There are some excellent options in the $1k range as suggested above. The SB13 Ultra is a great sub and would really rock in your room. I'll second the nominations for Power Sound Audio.

willis7469 said:
And man, I hate being uprooted from contentment!

Amen to that!!

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