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Discussion Starter #1
I am going to go with 2 maelstrom x's in 8ish cu ft boxes with dual pr's, now it's what amp to go with. I see a lot of people go with the behringer ep 2500 or ep4000. I was just looking at the specs of the amps & it looks like the 2500/4000w rating is max power & not rms. Anyone have any thoughts on other amps I could consider or are these OK? Seems like $300 is pretty cheap for a amp.

Looks like the EP4000 does 950w at 1%thd :(

Any other options out there?
 

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Are you doing 2 mal-x in the same box with 4 PR's? Or is it 2 separate enclosures 8 cu ft enclosures each with a single mal-x and dual passives?

I don't have a EP2500/4000 but they are really popular. I drive my sealed mal-x with a bridged QSC PLX3402 as my PLX2502 seems to run out if gas in my big room.

For a PR designed box you don't need as much power but you will need a HPF to keep from doing any damage.

You can run sim in WinISD Pro with passives if you have all the TSP's for the driver and PR's.

Give us a bit more specs and you will get a better response on what will work out.
 

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I just saw your other thread and MikeP would be the guy to ask.

It looks like from the Mal-X pdf that is linked the 8 cuft PR enclosure is modeled using 1000 watts into 8 ohm. The Mal-X is dual 2 ohm so it should be wired for a 4 ohm load which would equate to 2000 watts.

You could try a single EP2500 and if that is not enough then pick up a second one. With 2 Mal-X PR enclosures it will get loud with a single EP2500 unless you have a huge room. I know the Mal-X likes power though so I personally would use a pair of EP2500's and be done with it.

You have to make sure and use a HPF or subsonic filter set to about 16hz or you will probably destroy your subs.

What subs were you using before?

A single Mal-X with dual PR's will give you massive amounts of bass so you may want to start with 1 first and add the second later if you crave more.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
presently I do not have any subs on my dismantled system & my girlfriend has a pair of mirage 8's which I do not like at all, they do not play anything low thus the need to redo it a bit :) Long story short she's moving in & we are combining stereo's. Her amps, my speakers & pre/pro, her TV

I just looked at Behringer's site & they list the EP 2500 at 650w @ 4ohm from 20-20K hz & .1%thd. I was looking at carver & sunfire amps which costs 3x's the price used but has more power (rms) & less thd vs the ep2500. I guess I could try the single mal-x build with 2 PR's & then I could spend more on a different amp..... hmmmmmm

I tried doing winISD but my computer kept locking up on me, not sure what it's deal is, stupid vista I guess :(

Is a HPF a subsonioc filter? Any ideas on what I should look at there?
 

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presently I do not have any subs on my dismantled system & my girlfriend has a pair of mirage 8's which I do not like at all, they do not play anything low thus the need to redo it a bit :) Long story short she's moving in & we are combining stereo's. Her amps, my speakers & pre/pro, her TV

I just looked at Behringer's site & they list the EP 2500 at 650w @ 4ohm from 20-20K hz & .1%thd. I was looking at carver & sunfire amps which costs 3x's the price used but has more power (rms) & less thd vs the ep2500. I guess I could try the single mal-x build with 2 PR's & then I could spend more on a different amp..... hmmmmmm

I tried doing winISD but my computer kept locking up on me, not sure what it's deal is, stupid vista I guess :(

Is a HPF a subsonioc filter? Any ideas on what I should look at there?
I personally use QSC PLX amps but I know they are probably overkill compared to the EP2500 which I intend to pick up when I get more free time.

I wouldn't go with a Sunfire or Carver amp to power the Mal-X as they are more designed for a different application, for your speakers it makes sense but for a sub like the Mal-X I would pass.

Based on everyone elses experience with the EP2500 it would be your best choice for a budget amp. If you want to go up another level then the QSC PLX series are great amps and very reliable, I own about 4 of them and have never had one problem. I actually preferred the QSC PLX3402 to the Crown K2 which I previously owned as it had a quicker and cleaner attack and I have not gotten it to significantly clip in the 4 or so years I have had it.

The QSC amps are going to cost you about twice the price used compared to a new EP2500 and I am not sure if you would notice a significant difference. A friend of mine has the EP2500 and from listening to it at his house with a sub I built for him I think it sounds great.

A HPF is known as a High Pass Filter and it's function is the same as a subsonic filter. With vented subwoofers the driver can unload below the tuning frequency causing damage so that is why you need a HPF to keep these frequency's from reaching the sub.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
thanks for the great info! I cheaped out on my Adcom amp & I definantly notice a difference between that & the slightly better parasound stuff which is partially why I am leery about the behringer products especially looking at their specs. I will look at the QSC PLX .... & see what I can find. Are there any other amps you would consider?

Any suggestions on a subsonic filter that I should look at?
 

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thanks for the great info! I cheaped out on my Adcom amp & I definantly notice a difference between that & the slightly better parasound stuff which is partially why I am leery about the behringer products especially looking at their specs. I will look at the QSC PLX .... & see what I can find. Are there any other amps you would consider?

Any suggestions on a subsonic filter that I should look at?
There is nothing wrong with the EP2500. It isn't the best "quality" amp but it does have the necessary power for the application. Your looking at specifications into 8-ohms and that isn't how it will be used. The Maelstrom is a dual 2-ohm coil or in series, a 4-ohm nominal load. You would bridge the amplifier into a 4-ohm load or split the LF cable at the input and have each channel running a voice coil (each nominal 2-ohm load).

The Face Audio amps I sell and use have more power. The F1200-TS is plenty of amplifier for either a single Maelstrom-18" or Maelstrom-21". They are a notch up the food chain in terms of quality amplification.

For a subsonic filter, my standard recommendation is to just buy a Velodyne SMS-1. That also gives you room measurement and EQ. The room measurement and equalization will likely provide a huge improvement in sound quality. The room and the subwoofer placement is one of the biggest variables that we don't control as subwoofer designers. Having a dynamic device that can change equalization based upon measurements is extremely valuable. The SMS-1 also has a variable subsonic filter built-in that you can vary with a simple change in the set-up menu. There are other ways to do the room measurements and EQ but none of them that I've used are as simple as the SMS-1 so it gets a big thumbs up in terms of ease of use. Whatever you do, don't skimp on the room measurements and EQ because they are more important than the final quality of the amplifier you use (assuming you are using the right amount of power).

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
 

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I agree with Kevin and use a SMS-1 also.

I think your focusing too much on the specs of the EP2500 but the power output has been verified in another forum and it puts out legitimate watts. There are other amps from well known companies that do not produce the output they specify. No matter what the specs say the EP2500 is a proven performer for many DIY subs and if it wasn't then people would not use it.

The EP2500 and SMS-1 would be in the $800 range new which would be a much better option then spending the same amount on an amp only.

If I didn't already have a few QSC amps I would be using the EP2500 myself.
 

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I agree with Kevin and use a SMS-1 also.

I think your focusing too much on the specs of the EP2500 but the power output has been verified in another forum and it puts out legitimate watts. There are other amps from well known companies that do not produce the output they specify. No matter what the specs say the EP2500 is a proven performer for many DIY subs and if it wasn't then people would not use it.

The EP2500 and SMS-1 would be in the $800 range new which would be a much better option then spending the same amount on an amp only.

If I didn't already have a few QSC amps I would be using the EP2500 myself.
Actually, the pair should be <$700. I sell the SMS-1 with subs for $400 and the EP2500 can be bought for less than $300 online.

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
 

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Discussion Starter #11
awesome info!!!

My pre-pro is the integra 9.8 & I know it has some room EQ stuff but I haven't touched that yet since it hasn't been setup at my house yet :(

So the velodyne sms-1 & a pair of maelstrom x's & 4 pr's is what I need along with whatever amp I go with.

Hopefully the link will work below from behringer's site of the ep2500. I do understand that many times ratings are conservative but it states 650w @ 4 ohms per channel from 20-20Khz at .1%thd that is unless I am reading it wrong :) Bridged mono at 4 ohms 2400w is listed but at 1%thd. Since I have never heard their products 1st hand I am probably being a little to concerned about specs.... I want to do it right the first time & not have to screw around with upgrading at a later date.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/downloads/pdf/EP2500_P0183_S_EN.pdf
 

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From what I remember from actual testing the EP2500 puts out a legitimate 1900 watts at less than .05 distortion bridged mono into 4 ohms.

It is a good amp and there is a sticky around here to order and install a more quiet fan for the EP2500.

If you are planning on running 2 EP2500 or anything of that wattage you may want to upgrade your electrical to at least a dedicated 20amp service. If an amp can't draw out enough power from the wall then you will be choking your amps and they will not work there best.

I remember having a CAL Audio MCA-2500 multi-channel amp which could put out serious wattage if connected to a dedicated 20amp outlet but with a 15amp outlet put out about 35% less.

If you are going to have (2) 8 cuft boxes with a mal-x and 2 PR's in each then legitimately each sub will be loafing to produce an insane amount of bass unless your space is huge. The large box and passives make the mal-x more efficient so you don't need as much power to make them pound you into submission. I would try 1 EP2500 and see how it works out for you and if you don't like it you can sell it for a very small loss.

If not then go for one of Kevin's Face audio amps or pick up a QSC PLX3402 which will put out about 1000 watts into a 4ohm stereo pair. But for the price of 1 used 3402 you could have 2 new EP2500's.

Your going to have an unbelievable subs system whether you go with the EP2500 or not. My name says it all and right now a sealed mal-x, dual 12" sealed and an SMS-1 is producing excellent bass and I have a large open room. Dual Mal-x PR subs even with a single EP2500 would kill my current system.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I have been running new power lines in the house... fishtank get's it's own 20amp, koi pond got a 50a service & the list goes on.... & I thought I left a 50amp service for the stereo stuff but I will double check before the rooms are closed in.

My room definantly isn't large so trying a single ep2500 will probably be what I do & I do really appreciate the input!!!
 

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I wouldn't get too caught up in the power ratings outside of making sure that it is rated for plenty of power into 4-ohms. How you measure them has a large influence on how you rate the power. The continuous testing into a dummy load isn't necessarily the best method even though people put a lot of stock into those test.

If you stick with an amp that many other people have success using you are probably best off. Note, that all the pro-sound amps have fans and have ambient noise from the fans. Most people remote mount them in a closet or somewhere out of the listening area. I find that the ambient noise level is typically way over that of the amp so it doesn't concern me. Many projectors have the same issue so it depends on your use and where your listening location is in relation to the amps.

You also don't need dedicated 50A service. It certainly won't hurt but don't feel that you need that kind of electrical service. Most people are looking at worst case situations with the load. Most of us, don't play our subwoofers at sustained maximum levels. In more reasonable circumstances most people don't have dedicated circuits for their subs and they still manage to build an enjoyable system. They might dim the lights now and then. ;-)

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
 

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Discussion Starter #15
As it turns out I ran a single 20a service for the stereo which is the only power that wall would get. The TV, pre-pro, CD player etc as well as 4 parasound amps ea rated at around 200w x 2 & also the EP2500 (possibly 2) for the subs would all be run off that 20a service. I also wanted to upgrade at least one of the parasound amps for my main speakers to a older 500w bryston or possibly 600+w carver/sunfire or similar amp.

My thought was that even with everything at a nominal volume there will be a bit of juice that's needed so since the walls are torn apart I might as well run another line. I looked it over about a hr ago & we are going to run another 20-30a line so I can have plenty of juice available if I need it. It probably is a overkill but since I can do it I might as well run another line.
 

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1 20a service is probably fine but if the walls are open and it is not to much to do then I would opt for a second as well. This way you are covered for any future upgrades without having to open up the walls again.

I know my brother ran into troubles when I built him a sub and we used the Samson S1000 amp that I had from my SVS CS Ultras. It turned out that he only had 1 15a circuit for his living room and when his wife used the iron when watching TV it would trip the circuit. He now has to have an electrician run a dedicated 20a circuit for his HT. He is not even using that much, a Samsung DLP, Denon receiver and the Samson amp are the only power hogs he has.
 
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