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I don't know if this has been mentioned in previous posts or not, but I would like to see the actual db difference with running one sub (PB13/other) compared to running duals (2 x PB13/other). I've heard a lot of people mention that you'd only see roughly 6 db difference, but I'd like to see someone actually test this theory out. Or a link to the results if it's already been done.
I don't know if you'll find this much use, but I tried exactly this here. It obviously doesn't have Ilkka's sophistication of measurement

I found that orientation of co-location in the vertical plane actually had more of an effect on the smoothness of response than any other arrangement, but that is with respect to the somewhat smaller (on average) European room.

As regards the SPL gains, 6dB co-located and 3dB for just having a pair in the room was as expected. What wasn't expected was that the gain decreased with increasing frequency until it was negligable at 80Hz+.

Russell
 

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Elite Shackster
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Discussion Starter #143
AFAIK, the 16-46 is not available in 220v which is why ilkka or avtalk hasn't been able to test them.

I don't know if SVS has finally been able to get a 220v 16-46 ready now with their new CE certification
Actually the 16-46PC+ was available in 230V back when SVS was directly selling subwoofers to us Europeans. And I know that there are at least three of those in here Finland.

SVS isn't going to import it to Europe anymore though. Only three cylinder models will be available here: 25-31PCi, 20-39PC+ and PC13-Ultra.

I'm not sure if I will be able to test the 16-46PC+, but I could make some educated guesses about its performance since I have measured the 25-31PC+ and the 20-39PC+.
 

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I own one and I'd like to see some tests to see how it stacks up to the new PC-13 and PB-13 in 15hz mode.

Which would be better....native 16-46+ with 3 ports firing or a PB or PC-13 with 2 ports firing in 15hzmode...

Wouldn't more port area play an important role?
 

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Discussion Starter #145
I own one and I'd like to see some tests to see how it stacks up to the new PC-13 and PB-13 in 15hz mode.

Which would be better....native 16-46+ with 3 ports firing or a PB or PC-13 with 2 ports firing in 15hzmode...

Wouldn't more port area play an important role?
The PB/PC13-Ultra without a doubt would be quite a lot stronger (also lower distortion) at every frequency. The new woofer is so much better and stronger than the Plus woofer that even the lesser port area wouldn't affect that much. Of course a native 15-16 Hz tuned Ultra would be even stronger down there but that would require even larger enclosure with those 3.5" ports.

Also don't forget that the new Ultra is much stronger at higher frequencies (at and above 20 Hz) than any of the older Plus cylinders. While it's nice to have good output down to the teens but actually it's the higher frequencies that make you say wow! When you tune a subwoofer lower, you will inevitably sacrifice the output at higher frequencies compared to a higher tuned subwoofer.
 

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well here is where I am at with my subwoofer situation now.

Last Feb I got the 16-46+ with plans for a 2nd because I'm a bass head. The actually Specs and performance on the Ultra were unknown at that time even by the great guys at SVS...

I like the sub, but just wish I had more BASS in the 20-40hz region than I do. I knew when I bought it that I was going to be missing out on some bass, but I know a 2nd one would solve that headroom issue.

Then I think why spend 950 on a 2nd one when I could spend 1300 on the Ultra-PC and just tune it to 15hz. People have been raving about the 10 and 15hz modes of the Ultra and how great it sounds when tuned to these settings. I just cannot belive the number of amazed people...

So....In your opinion....Should I:

A. Buy a 2nd 16-46+ to pair with my current one and never look back. Would this give me 115-120db cleanly from 15hz to 80hz... (right now I'm pretty clean in that range averaging about 107-109db..)

B. Buy a PC-13 and pair it with my current sub and have the best of both worlds....I would have the 16-46+ which I could leave in native or tune it down to 12hz....which could be the sub I use to dig really deep, while the Ultra could be in 20 or 15hz mode and I could use it to really kill the rest of the freq range...maximizing its amazing freq and spl ability. I could colocate or use different placement and it wouldn't even look funny since they are both PCs and they are identical in height and width.

Thanks ahead of time for your input....I know you don't know me that well, but I really value your input and have read a ton of your information here, on HTspot, and AVS...

oh the choices we have in this fun land of HT!!! :heehee:
 

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Audiophile Liquidator has the NHT W2 (comes with two 14" cubes each housing their own 12" driver) on clearence for $250, I wonder how those perform.
 

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Discussion Starter #151
well here is where I am at with my subwoofer situation now.

Last Feb I got the 16-46+ with plans for a 2nd because I'm a bass head. The actually Specs and performance on the Ultra were unknown at that time even by the great guys at SVS...

I like the sub, but just wish I had more BASS in the 20-40hz region than I do. I knew when I bought it that I was going to be missing out on some bass, but I know a 2nd one would solve that headroom issue.

Then I think why spend 950 on a 2nd one when I could spend 1300 on the Ultra-PC and just tune it to 15hz. People have been raving about the 10 and 15hz modes of the Ultra and how great it sounds when tuned to these settings. I just cannot belive the number of amazed people...

So....In your opinion....Should I:

A. Buy a 2nd 16-46+ to pair with my current one and never look back. Would this give me 115-120db cleanly from 15hz to 80hz... (right now I'm pretty clean in that range averaging about 107-109db..)
Well this one is easy. A second identical co-located subwoofer will give you +6 dB, and not a single dB more. So if you are now getting 107-109 dB, with duals it would be 113-115 dB. If you want again 6 dB more, you need total of four subs.

B. Buy a PC-13 and pair it with my current sub and have the best of both worlds....I would have the 16-46+ which I could leave in native or tune it down to 12hz....which could be the sub I use to dig really deep, while the Ultra could be in 20 or 15hz mode and I could use it to really kill the rest of the freq range...maximizing its amazing freq and spl ability. I could colocate or use different placement and it wouldn't even look funny since they are both PCs and they are identical in height and width.
I don't recommend this combination because you'd have to dial the 16-46PC+ lower because of its lower max SPL capability. Also they won't have identical frequency responses so you won't get a full +6dB at every frequency.

If you can afford one new subwoofer, I would recommend getting another 16-46+ instead of Ultra. Of course selling your current subwoofer and getting two new Ultras would be the best choice. :bigsmile: Of course there's also the magical world of DIY, but I assume you are not interested in that?

Thanks ahead of time for your input....I know you don't know me that well, but I really value your input and have read a ton of your information here, on HTspot, and AVS...

oh the choices we have in this fun land of HT!!! :heehee:
I have read your post and SPL threads on the "other forum" so I know you pretty well. :)
 

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I would love to see the Emotiva DRS-1 Dual 12" subs without outboard 600 Watt amplifier and included mic for Eq set up all for $1,000
my second would be the Outlaw dual setup LFM-1EX setup
THIS WOULD BE A GREAT SHOOT OUT!!

The Emotivas are new and due out January 2008
 

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I would be interested in a test that compared an entire lineage within one companies history. Let me explain. I would like to see how a major brand like Velodyne has progressed over the years. Let's pick a level in the Velodyne line (top of the line is probably the easiest to define) and compare the products from various vintages. For example compare a ULD-18, HGS 18 and a DD18 (and any other top of the heap 18 inch models that they made). It seems to me that a lot of the progress in subwoofers over the past say 20 years has been related to making smaller and smaller cabinets. This requires ridiculous amounts of enginering and cost (multi thousand watt amplifier and drivers with 4 inch peak to peak excursions are tough to build for reasonable prices). Some of the "discount" sub brands like HSU and SVS seem to be doing very well building models based on the model of the old Velodyne ULD's and Snell SUB 1800's. Build a big enough box and even a relatively tame drive with only one or maybe two inches of peak to peak excursion with a "small" 300-400 watt amp can still pound out the bass and have reasonable sound quality to boot. Let's seen if those of us still holding on to our old subs have lost our mind or simply are willing to devote a bigger swath of real estate to our hobby.
 

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Dan, as you know, it is a matter of physics. If you want huge bass with little distortion, you must have a large box. If you look at the specs on the small subwoofers, you will see that they are unable to go below @30HZ without significant distortion. If you want the lowest and loudest distortion-free bass, you will have to settle for a large box or a tall tube.
I personally would rather have the lowest, loudest, most distortion-free bass, so, I opted for the fairly large SVS PB12-Plus/2 (with the new 12.3 drivers) and am very pleased with the results.
I once built a 4 cubic ft box and put a 12 in driver in it. I used an old Pioneer receiver to power it. I used the power supply from a VCR to power a car equalizer to help balance the output. The results: I think I was a contender for the making the world's ugliest box sub. As far as the sound, it probably would equal a small 8" sub designed by someone who actually knew what he was doing!
Happy lightning strike/pod emerging/Darla glass tapping to you. Have fun, Dennis
 

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I would love to see the Emotiva DRS-1 Dual 12" subs without outboard 600 Watt amplifier and included mic for Eq set up all for $1,000
my second would be the Outlaw dual setup LFM-1EX setup
THIS WOULD BE A GREAT SHOOT OUT!!

The Emotivas are new and due out January 2008
duuuude i've totally been interested in these Emotiva subs as well. . .They sure do look sweet.
 

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john, yes, I have read about and seen/heard the Sunfire line. they are amazing, but, to get the lowes octave, you still need a larger space for the woofer/s to respond. It was hearing a Sunfire for the 1st time several years ago that got me hooked on having a real subwoofer. Dennis
 
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I noticed that there are no Epic subwoofers that have been tested to date.

I would really like to see the Epik Conquest tested.
 
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HI! :mooooh:

Well... If you look at my thread in the DIY area, you'll see I'm seriously considering using the Aurasound NS18 driver in the sub system I'm putting together for my Music/HT system. It's pretty much four drivers spread across four 20-25 cube boxes tuned to 12-14hz powered by a CE4000 or similar. :hsd:

My father was talking to one of his friends who said that he might finance our build and have us build him one if he likes the results, I believe. :bigsmile:

I was wondering if you might be able to get ahold of the driver and do some tests on it so that I might know what to expect before I actually buy and build it. I don't know if you've seen me before or not.

Thanks. Oh, and happy holidays.
 
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