[McCool]

Owen,

I thought you should know there are people out there following your thread with great excitement. I'm in a similar position as yourself, building a dedicated home theater in a house I just bought. Like yours, my home theater probably wont be done for about another year or so, but I'm already looking into my speaker options. I want to upgrade to ATMOS and since I love building speakers, I thought I'd do that rather than buy. I've been looking for the perfect DIY option and ran across the HTM-12's. I'm very used to standard home theater Hi-Fi. I have an older, Kenwood THX 5.1 system (LS-X1F LCR's and a matching pair of SW-X1 subs.) They're fantastic, but they feel strained in a larger theater while playing at reference level and the bass pretty much drops to nothing bellow 25hz. Regardless, they are very pretty to listen to, have wonderful detail and flat, non-fatiguing, theater-like sound - just no real dynamics, intensity and pizzazz that I like to hear when I go to the local IMAX. I can't imagine what horn loaded compression tweeters and 12 inch mid drivers sound like in a residential environment but I'm hoping it creates that dynamic punch I'm looking for. I'm just worried about the ear-bleeding, honking fatigue and piercingly uncontrolled mid-range that is usually associated with horns and cheep PA speakers. Since there's not really any reviews out yet on the HTM-12's, I'm excited to read yours. I'm loving your detailed building posts and I'm on pins and needles to read your listening review! Thanks for taking the time to keep us all up to date on this new DIY speaker!

 

[Prof.]

Happy New Year, everyone!

Basically a "nothing" update today, because I took a break from building over the holiday and either spent time with the boys, or relaxing with my wife instead of freezing my fingers off in the garage. I finished filling and sanding, and it seems like the enclosures came out pretty clean. I had a few small low spots filled in (from over- or under-sanding) and most of the filler left is just sitting in the little pits where I didn't have 100% fill in the glue joints at the outside edge. They might look a bit ugly still, but they're generally baby's-butt smooth. And not caked with filler either, which I like.

I did manage to get a coat of primer on all 3 enclosures, but didn't move on to either a second coat or actual paint. I think I'll skip the 2nd coat of primer and just go straight to paint, and do either 2 or 3 coats if required.

I'll get back to work this week and start painting for real. I'm thinking a small foam roller to minimize texture, we'll see how that works out. Still waiting on binding posts, so I don't feel like I have to push. (also, I don't really have anywhere to put these till the theatre is built in like a year... but you know, priorities.)

Owen..A small foam roller is perfect for the job.. Painting a smooth surface requires no nap..

 

[Owen Bartley]

Owen,

I thought you should know there are people out there following your thread with great excitement. I'm in a similar position as yourself, building a dedicated home theater in a house I just bought. Like yours, my home theater probably wont be done for about another year or so, but I'm already looking into my speaker options. I want to upgrade to ATMOS and since I love building speakers, I thought I'd do that rather than buy. I've been looking for the perfect DIY option and ran across the HTM-12's. I'm very used to standard home theater Hi-Fi. I have an older, Kenwood THX 5.1 system (LS-X1F LCR's and a matching pair of SW-X1 subs.) They're fantastic, but they feel strained in a larger theater while playing at reference level and the bass pretty much drops to nothing bellow 25hz. Regardless, they are very pretty to listen to, have wonderful detail and flat, non-fatiguing, theater-like sound - just no real dynamics, intensity and pizzazz that I like to hear when I go to the local IMAX. I can't imagine what horn loaded compression tweeters and 12 inch mid drivers sound like in a residential environment but I'm hoping it creates that dynamic punch I'm looking for. I'm just worried about the ear-bleeding, honking fatigue and piercingly uncontrolled mid-range that is usually associated with horns and cheep PA speakers. Since there's not really any reviews out yet on the HTM-12's, I'm excited to read yours. I'm loving your detailed building posts and I'm on pins and needles to read your listening review! Thanks for taking the time to keep us all up to date on this new DIY speaker!

Thanks for the kind words, McCool, I'll try not to let you down! lol

I think we're in a great place/time to be starting a theatre build, being able to build with Atmos, 4k, etc. in mind. I know there is always a new thing on the horizon, but I don't think that there will be a significant change in speaker layout required (unless switching to an Auro 3D setup) for a long time. I'll try to make sure all the cables I run are HDCP 2.2 compliant, which should last a little while at least, and high enough bandwidth to pass whatever the latest version of HDMI is capable of, and UHD specs require. What else can happen after 4K and HDR? I don't know, but since I won't even have a full 4K display any time soon, I think I'll be fairly "future-proof" for a while at least. With that in mind, I'll try to run conduit for cables/wires where possible, to make replacement years from now a little easier, and that's about as safe as it can get I think.

I'm really looking forward to experiencing the SEOS speakers, especially with cinematic material. I have a Paradigm setup now, and there's nothing WRONG with them really, but the one big complaint I have is with dialogue clarity and coherence. My hope is that moving to 3 identical speakers, ditching the horizontal centre, and placing them in a more optimal location behind an AT screen will make big strides forward in that area. The SEOS horns have been praised for their clarity and dialogue rendering, and I can't wait to see how they work out. From my initial "drop in test" there wasn't a lot of bass from the 12, but that is by design. In my setup they'll be crossed over to a pair of UXL-18s, so they won't need to handle anything below 60Hz at the most (I'll play with crossover points from around 60Hz to 100Hz or above, since the UXLs are supposed to do well up that high). Are you thinking about replacing the SW-X1s as well? Any early candidates?

Owen..A small foam roller is perfect for the job.. Painting a smooth surface requires no nap..

Thanks Prof! I thought I remembered reading that somewhere. Now I'll have the confidence to try it. I was going to make a joke about ME needing a nap, but couldn't pull it together. I'm too tired. :rofl:

 

[McCool]

I'm really looking forward to experiencing the SEOS speakers, especially with cinematic material. I have a Paradigm setup now, and there's nothing WRONG with them really, but the one big complaint I have is with dialogue clarity and coherence. My hope is that moving to 3 identical speakers, ditching the horizontal centre, and placing them in a more optimal location behind an AT screen will make big strides forward in that area. The SEOS horns have been praised for their clarity and dialogue rendering, and I can't wait to see how they work out. From my initial "drop in test" there wasn't a lot of bass from the 12, but that is by design. In my setup they'll be crossed over to a pair of UXL-18s, so they won't need to handle anything below 60Hz at the most (I'll play with crossover points from around 60Hz to 100Hz or above, since the UXLs are supposed to do well up that high). Are you thinking about replacing the SW-X1s as well? Any early candidates?

Owen, I've read the same thing about the SEOS horns and the clear dialogue they're acclaimed to produce is definitely one of the things drawing me to them. I'm not concerned about the lack of bass in the LCR's, that's what the subs are for. I may keep the SW-X1's to help even out bass gaps in my room - I'm not ruling anything out at this point. I have A TON of space behind my AT screen, so I have the option to do whatever I want. It looks like most guys are drawn to the Full Marty Sub with the Inuke amp. I'm very intrigued by the idea of flat bass response down to 17hz and a pair of those looks like it would definitely do the trick. But, at the same time, I don't know if I can expect tight, musical precision out of an 18in DIY sub. I already feel my 12inch SW-X1's are too muddy. The truth is, I want the best of both worlds. I obviously want my dedicated theater to be a crushing, powerhouse of awesomeness, but at the same time, I want to install a turntable and use it as a place where I can enjoy musical nirvana - not the band, but the state of mind. Obviously I can't have both, I get it, properly calibrated movie theater sound systems don't create the best in music listening capability, but that's what I intend to do with my room. I want a speaker system that functions best as a theater monitor and yet also performs beautifully as a two channel stereo system, with a subwoofer that nails people to the wall during film screenings and yet tight and musical on jazz night. I'm open for suggestions...

 

[Owen Bartley]

It sounds like a pair of subs and maybe a pair of midbass modules, or perhaps additional nearfield subs might work for you. Those seem to be the currently en vogue methods of increasing your tactile bass response, after you've got a capable "standard" sub. If you have lots of space in your room either behind or beside the seats, nearfield subs might be fun. Otherwise if you want a monster stack all tucked away behind the screen (where you've said you have lots of room) then maybe a pair of midbass modules are the way to go. Either way, you have options, and a lot of fun reading ahead.

 

[Prof.]

Thanks Prof! I thought I remembered reading that somewhere. Now I'll have the confidence to try it. I was going to make a joke about ME needing a nap, but couldn't pull it together. I'm too tired. :rofl:

Lol!.I was thinking the same thing when I wrote it!..I didn't mean there was no need for you to take a nap!! :heehee:

 

[Tonto]

Wow, you have really done a nice job Owen. I bet you are going to love them!

 

[Owen Bartley]

After a bit of a slowdown with minimal progress in tiny steps (kids sick, us sick, frigid garage temps, busy schedules), I finally have a step worth showing.

The cabinets are finished with paint. Most surfaces got 3 coats, except the back and bottoms, which got 2 each due to flipping around while painting. The paint is Sherwin Williams Quali-Kote "Blacktop" in a flat finish. To be honest, it has a little more grey/green in it than I would like, but since they'll be behind the screen anyway I settled for "just OK" because it was a gallon of good quality flat almost-black paint from the mistint section and it only cost me $10.00. I have a ton left to do the subs, screen frame, anything else that needs to suck up light and won't be obviously visible in the room. If they were going to be visible, I think I would have tried laminate... that WilsonArt Asian Night is great looking stuff.

I thought I had a foam roller to use, but when I was ready to go it turned out that the roller I had didn't fit the handle I had, so I just uses a regular short nap roller. Again, they'll be behind the screen, so this is more about performance than looks. They really don't look bad, and the paint went on nice and covered well. It has the usual tendency of "flat" paints to show every little mark and finger smudge, so it will be interesting to see how these hold up through the rest of the build. I'll likely have to do some touchup eventually. The green was much more pronounced when the paint was wet, as you can see in the wet/dry comparison below (those closeups were after the first coat).

I'm still waiting for my binding posts. But the cabinets are otherwise ready for them so when they arrive I can get them all assembled and test out some music and movies. I'm excited to see how much of an improvement I get with dialogue. We watched Civil War last night and I have both the "dialogue" setting and the centre channel level cranked up to get intelligible voices in quiet passages. When we watch with the kids in bed I usually turn on the dynamic compression, but I don't think it's actually doing much to help. Anyway, some progress, and I'm just about at the end of this build. Finally.

 

[Prof.]

Very nice job Owen..:T I'm surprised you had to boost the centre channel to hear voices clearly..I would have thought that those mid horns would have been bright enough!

 

[Owen Bartley]

Very nice job Owen..:T I'm surprised you had to boost the centre channel to hear voices clearly..I would have thought that those mid horns would have been bright enough!

Sorry Prof., that wasn't very clear. The settings were cranked with my current setup (Paradigm CC 370). One of the main things I'm looking for is getting rid of the horizontal Centre for a matching LCR. I fully expect the new speakers to blow this setup out of the water.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

 

[Prof.]

Aha!..That makes more sense..I would say that it will be like "chalk and cheese" between the two set ups...

 

[Owen Bartley]

Remember those speakers that I was going to have ready for Boxing Day? Yeah, they're getting close now. LOL.

Binding posts have still not arrived and I'm well past the estimated outside ship date. Time to have the seller ship another set. In the meantime, I decided to go ahead and get as close as I could to "finished", so all I have to do is drill for the posts, attach the leads, and close everything up.

I went ahead with one speaker that I plan to test as the centre channel in my existing setup over the weekend, because I'm dying to hear something from these. I basically drilled 1/8" holes in the locations for the binding posts and squeezed the bare leads out. When the posts arrive, I can drill out the proper size and go ahead.

I started by making a quick cardboard template for drilling the holes for the binding posts. I measured out roughly where I wanted them based on the location of the crossover and length of the leads I left for the input. Each speaker now has a pilot hole ready to finish in the correct diameter for posts. Then I lined up the woofer, marked the holes, pulled the woofer, and drilled the locations for screws. While I was at it, I took a plain old Sharpie to the silver edge of the woofer basket, which worked like a charm. I just did long smooth strokes instead of colouring like my kids do, and it went on fine. I did run around the lip twice, just to get a good coat.

I had my big helper get involved so he can tell his friends one day "I built those speakers". Also he loved the tiny wrench we used to mount the CD to the waveguide. I wasn't sure how tight to attach this, so I went about a 1/2 turn past "snug" without having to really reef on the wrench. I also thought I'd add an extra detail at this point. I read about people using other waveguides and using things like plumber's putty, fiberglass, and modeling clay on the back to to damp it. I don't think it's really necessary for the SEOS, since it is made of much thicker material than I saw others using, but I had some Dynamat lying around and I thought "why not?". So I attached a strip about an inch or so wide on each side of the waveguide. NOTE: Please let me know if this was a bad idea and may cause negative effects - I can't think of why it might, but I don't know how waveguides operate really.

And finally, I connected the woofer and waveguide, and mounted them in the enclosure. I didn't have time to do the ports last night, so I attacked them with an angle grinder and a cutoff disc this morning in between dropping the kids at daycare and running for my train. I'll get them in tonight. I did a quick music test... and it works. I listened for about 1 minute and at low - moderate volume, but they sound nice (even without the port) and even moving around the room the sound was still quite full.

After this weekend I'll have finished this one and hopefully have a few movies worth of listening impressions. And then whenever my posts arrive I'll get the other two stitched up and test the trio together. There WILL be a conclusion to this build eventually! :waiting:

 

[Prof.]

Good one Owen!..:T The SEOS Waveguides have a very good reputation and shouldn't need any further deadening..I doubt it would make any noticeable difference though even with additional dampening..
Anxiously waiting to hear the final result..

 

[Owen Bartley]

Thanks Prof, i think you're right... the SEOS waveguides are THICK material. I've seen other waveguides made out of thin plastic or fiberglass, which I'm sure would be more prone to resonate. These really are quite dense and solid. I kind of figured while I have them open, and I have the material, I might as well slap some on. Just to be on the safe side.

As of last night, one speaker is good to go. I can't call it "finished" because I still need binding posts, but it is up and running, and will be tested this weekend. Listening impressions of the single one in centre channel duty to follow.

 

[Tonto]

Looking good! Can't wait to hear how you like them.

 

[Owen Bartley]

OK, the slowest build in the world continues!

I spent some time with this single HTM-12 set up as the centre this weekend, and we were able to go through a couple of movies, Star Trek Beyond and Jason Bourne. Now I should say first that I did not rerun Audyssey. I did a quick test with it on and off, and when I turned it off I realized what a difference it is making. So I left it on, as an unscientific first attempt and went ahead.

The existing centre channel (Paradigm CC-370) which is a match to the Monitor 7 towers is set at 0, while the front L/R towers are -3. The "dialogue" setting is turned up to +6. When I swapped in the HTM-12, I had to set the centre level to -1 and bring the L/R up to +1, and bring "dialogue" back to 0 to get a reasonably close match. So the efficiency was immediately evident.

Even with the totally inappropriate Audyssey settings for a vastly different speaker in place, the HTM-12 sounded great. Voices and dialogue were clear and crisp, and we never felt strained when listening to quieter speech. The sound was so clean that I found myself turning things up a few times... not because we couldn't hear it, but because it sounded so good and I wanted more of it! This was just a quick and dirty "make sure it's working" test, but I'd call it a success. I'll probably set up with all 3 when I get the binding posts* and run a new Audyssey setup for them just to get a better idea how they sound, but until the basement gets finished (ahem - started) they'll be hanging out in storage. Here's a quick pic of the test setup. Ignore all the kid junk, there's just not enough places to hide it all until we get the basement done. I'll finish this up with a more detailed review when I get them all running at once, but for now, that's about it. Thanks for your patience while I worked away at a snail's pace here.

Next frustratingly slow moving project... twin UXL-18s. Stay tuned.

*Since the binding posts hadn't arrived almost a month after their estimated arrival date, I contacted the seller on eBay and was refunded the full amount. I'll leave them as-is for now, and decide what to do about them later, since they won't be put into regular service for a while.

 

[Prof.]

It "sounds" (pun intended) very encouraging Owen..

 

[Tonto]

Great work Owen! You could actually skip the binding posts all together & wire directly to the speaker wire. Somebody remind me of the thread where the sponsor sold a kit to do just that. It's on the tip of my tongue...he used to give speaker's (black speakers in a very fancy black fabric bag) and kit deals all the time??? It had a special, red wire from the crossover to a specialty connector (very thin, hollow tube--male/female) that plugged into the half that the speaker wire was connected. He swore it made a huge difference. If I remember it was like $75.00. More expensive that binding posts for sure! All you did was drill 2 small holes just like you did & hook em up!

 

[Owen Bartley]

Thanks guys.

I guess I could always just seal around the exposed wires (which is what I'll be doing for my in wall and in ceiling speakers) but for these I think I want to stick with something a bit nicer. We'll see what I come up with over the next 6 months.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

 

[Owen Bartley]

OK, I realize I am past overdue with some proper listening impressions. Binding posts were installed and all is good to go. These have been resting in the basement since completion, which is going to be their future home whenever we get around to building the theatre. In the meantime, while I have still not given them some dedicated space and full setup for listening, I have hooked them up in a temporary location in the basement which will allow me to put some hours on them and get a better feel for how they sound. I can have them on for background music when I'm ironing shirts or when we actually take some time to work on de-cluttering the basement - the first step before construction.

I put in a little bit of listening time over the last week, both in the background at low and high volumes, and sitting on the floor so my head is level with the tweeters, and listening more critically. Initially, I had an old (hard drive style!) iPod hooked up to my retired receiver and was experiencing some odd distortion and artifacts. I think that was due to a) using really old low bitrate mp3s, and b) the iPod not having much output voltage. Once I swapped my phone playing some high quality streaming music the quality improved drastically.

With the better source input, these speakers became clear, articulate, punchy, clean, and dynamic. There's a big change in the sound moving into and out of the waveguide's sweet spot, especially when listening at closer distances. The vertical dispersion seems to be more limited, as you would guess from the shape of the WG, and I am guessing this will make for the more critical aspect of final placement. Having said that, once I moved farther back into the room, even way off axis they still sounded smooth and clear.

The midbass impact was hard for me to really get a good handle on, but I think that is almost all due to placement and room issues. There were places I found listening off axis that had great full midbass, but when I moved back into the sweet spot I lost a lot of it. They are currently on the floor, so I'll make an effort to do some listening with them elevated in the future. Based on what I can piece together from my walking around though, I believe these will have a great "full" midbass sound, and I can feel some of the "punch" that I was hoping for. They will definitely need subs, but listening to some electronic/EDM/house type music without them still sounded really good. Vocals on more subdued material sounded very clean and clear, without sounding too "clinical". In comparison to the Paradigm Monitor 7s that I'm used to, I think they sound a little more "open" and detailed. It's hard to pin down exactly what I'm hearing, but it is an improvement.

I haven't run across any music that didn't agree with these speakers yet, and I doubt that I'm going to. Their primary function will be movies eventually, and I have not had a chance to set up all 3 for a movie test yet. I'm looking forward to that, especially if they can bring the same qualities to the table that they do with music. I'm very happy with the way these turned out, and DIYSG and Matt and Erich have put together a really great L/C/R speaker in my opinion.